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About the four great fasts.

I understand the Great Fast(Lent) and Philip's Fast (Advent).

Now about the Dormition fast and Apostles?

How long is the Dormition fast? In the west, the 14th of August is only a day of fast(too bad not too many people know about this). What are the requirements?

Also is the Apostles Fast related to the feast of St. Peter and Paul in June or another feast? How long does this fast last and what are the requirements?

I thank you all again in Christ,

Devo

Dear Andrew,

An Orthodox priest who is authorized to hear confessions (and not all jurisdictions immediately authorize a priest fresh out of seminary to do this) is not expected also to ~remember~ the sins confessed to Christ in his presence. He is instructed to FORGET them. So unless the priest is ALSO one's spiritual father, and is therefore guiding one's spiritual growth, and watching over one, it is unlikely that there is great need for people to "bond" with their parish priest for two to three years before determining to go to confession.

The priest is the only one capable of granting absolution: Confessing privately before God, while a step in the right direction, is not sacramental confession. What you have written about people avoiding confession because the priests are such poor role models is a classic argument: Why go to the doctor? He gets sick too!

Priest, like everyone else, sin, and like everyone else, must confess those sins. But we remember that when our clergy are vested before us they stand in place of Christ, and that is how we view them at that time.

If you feel that, as often happens, your parish priest is not the one for you to have as a spiritual father, then you choose a spiritual father elsewhere for advice, either a monastic or a priest in another parish. This is more than acceptable. But confession and spiritual counseling are not the same thing, although often advice is given as a practical matter at the time.

Gaudior, by means of explanation.

Dear Devo,

The Dormition Fast is the two weeks before the Feast of the Dormition/Assumption, August 15th on the New Calendar and August 28th on the Old Calendar.

The Apostles' Fast begins on the Monday following the Feast of All Saints (the Sunday after Pentecost Sunday) and lasts until the Feast of Sts Peter and Paul at the end of June for the New Calendar and July 12 on the Old Calendar. The days assigned to this fast would vary according to the Sunday of All Saints.

Alex

Dear Gaudior,

Thanks for your clarification. Certainly, you raise the distinction between "Spiritual Father" and "Confessor." They may or may not be the same person. I agree.

And you also point out that confessing before God alone and sacramental confession (before one authorized to invoke GOD'S absolution of sins) are different. Again, I agree, and as I pointed out, major sins are the one's that excommunicate one and REQUIRE sacramental confession, pennance, and absolution PRIOR to communion.

As an aside, we sometimes forget that in the Slavic tradition, the priest says "I absolve," but in the older Byzantine tradition, the priest asks that God would absolve the sins of the penitent. This earlier tradition is so significant that St. Vladimir's Seminary (clearly in the Slavic tradition on most issues) jettisoned the Slavic version and imported the Byzantine version for use in sacramental confession in their chapel. They teach that the priest is but a witness to the overall community that the personal members are penitent and in good standing. Obviously, practical counselling is also offered in this context.

Back to the issue of "professional" confessors.

I know SEVERAL parish priests who have told me of other people's confessions. While they don't mention the person by name, it is indeed a small world, especially for the Orthodox, and so one can readily discern the source. I can only imagine what they reveal to their own wives.

I don't know why they have inappropriately confided these things in me, but I find this to be most disturbing. I haven't even relayed these confessions to my own wife, out of respect for the original source.

So, my comments are partly based upon these experiences and what my elders have passed down regarding the specially-selected confessors of "olden days," men of deep spirituality who knew how to keep the confidences of their flock. Perhaps that was the proverbial "Golden Age" that never existed, but I'd at least like to hear more discussion of "the Confessor" as a vocation.

In Christ,
Andrew

Dear Andrew,

What you have just disclosed re: priests revealing the matter of confession is absolutely shocking to me. I am of the understanding that this is grounds for his own excommunication. Am I correct here? Or do you perhaps mean that maybe he was disclosing general facts about confession for someone's instruction? For example, for a priest to say in a vague way in a homily that it is common for him to hear from children that they have disobeyed their parents is no surprise to anyone, and I wouldn't consider that to be breaking the seal of the confessional. Or even to say that it is a great grace to receive the confession of someone who has not been in 10 years, for example, and to disclose that on average one of these "prodigals" might show up once every six months for the sacrament. But to truly disclose specific matter that could be attached to a soul? Is anyone else as astounded as I am? This might come as a great shock to someone planning to return to confession after a long time and truly nervous about his sins. I hope I have understood you incorrectly.

Tammy

There is also a good canon of preparation for confession to the Theotokos: http://www.anastasis.org.uk/canon_for_confession.htm

My spiritual father is interesting in that his approach is that whenever I commit any wilfull sin, I am to call him and confess. He says that we'll get to the acutal sacramental absolution when we can, depending on the seriousness and schedule, but I need to confess ASAP, 24 hours a day. E.g. Someone I know had confessed using bad language. He said from then on, the first time she should make a sign of the cross over her mouth. Anymore, from here to eternity, she must call him every time, no matter the time of day! It's caused her to clean up the language real quick... On the other hand, formal confession is only about once every 6-8 weeks.

I think this shows, coming from the monastic tradition, the fact that the Byzantine tradition tends to make a distinction between confession and absolution. One priest I know said that when he was at Philotheou on Mt. Athos, every so often the monk who was attending to him would stop what he was doing, whisper in his Elder's ear, then come back. Once, he said "I just confessed. What a blessing to confess all my thoughts throughout the day, not to mention all my sins!"

What Andrew says can be taken in two ways. One is the same as: "The priest's sermon was directed at me." Meaning, it touched a nerve, so you thought he was talking about you. The other is for a priest to say in a general but true way that they have "heard it all...theft, adultery, abortion, fornication, you name it". And people being who they are, they fill in the blanks.

Now, this is not to say that priests do not talk. On occasion they do. And it is grounds for being deposed. My only suggestion is that should you encounter a very loose-lipped priest, and you find yourself in his "confidence" because you are a deacon, a reader, or his close friend, you remind him immediately that he can be deposed for this, and refuse to listen.

But a priest IS allowed to discuss circumstances of a confession with his spiritual father if they are such that he needs advice, but he may not mention names. The number of times this is likely to happen, however, may be infintessimally small.

Gaudior, who reminds everyone to pray for their priests.

Unfortunately, the clearest of the situations that I refer to is with a priest who knows me well and knows that I don't talk to others of things given to me in confidence. So he (correctly) feels that what he says will go no further. That is still not a valid excuse.

Gaudior's point is well taken: that I'm really obligated to remind him of his responsibility to keep his flock's confidences. And also, that we should pray for and support our priests and confessors more.

They carry enormous burdens and need periodic catharsis, which is why I mentioned that some bishops will not ordain a man who has no spiritual father or regular confessor. I would think that the unburdening that they receive through this would not need to include "naming names," but "naming sins" so that the confessor's confessor can help him to offer the best counsel to his flock of penitents.

Gaudior said, "Now, this is not to say that priests do not talk. On occasion they do." Of, course, they are not perfect or sinless, only Christ is.

It is interesting because the basic credo of the CIA's worldwide human intelligence operation is that "almost everybody talks to someone (about their secrets)." The CIA knows that most will not reveal these secrets directly to a foreign intelligence service, even for money, but that they will reveal secrets to close friends and family as a way of unburdening themselves. So they become "buddies" with the target's friends or family, supplying them with money or whatever they are lacking, and using them to get the information that they need from the target.

So, I think that we all can be better friends and family to the confessors whom we know and love, strengthening them to to do what few can or must do, that is, to hear and keep the burdens and sins of others in confidence.

May God grant us all a blessed Holy Week.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

When it comes to the seal of the confessional, I am much more comfortable with the "legalistic" West.

Can't happen. period.

Dear Alice and Friends,
Christ is among us!

As a traditional Byzantine Christian, I do not deliniate between a mortal and venial sins. All unrepented sin could be deadly. It is best to get rid of them all!

You may ask, what if I can not remember them all? Presuming that you are not trying to conceal any particular sin, a good examination of conscience is sufficient. Your Spiritual Father or Confessor may ask you some questions to help you out remembering possible sins. Then our Prayer of Repentance asks for the forgiveness of sins that we can not remember or call to mind. Remember that your confessor is there to help you heal, not to judge or condemn you.

Interestingly enough, I hear regularly the confessions of parishioners from the local OCA parish. Many of these folks do not like the fact that their Pastor recounts their confessions outside of the Holy Mystery. (To both the Confessee and others, including myself.) This may go back to the practice in the Russian Church of calling upon a priest to report to authorities crimes confessed in Confession. These other orthodox Christians respect the fact that I do not discuss, or frankly even remember the sins they confess to the Lord through me, his unworthy priest.

I believe that it is necessary for us to share with people the healing aspect of the forgiveness experienced in the Mystery of Holy Repentance. I find when you make this emphasis, more people come to Confession, and the Confessions are deeper experiences of repentance. Frequently the gift of tears is experienced in this Holy Mystery as the Healing of Forgiveness is shared with the Repentant.

May God grant all of you a Blessed Great & Holy Week, the unworthy priest,
Fr. Vladimir

In reading another thread, our brother Chtec posted a link to an beautiful icon written by his dad. I back-tracked to his dad's website itself and discovered this interesting

Service of Prayer for the Eradication of Idle-Talk [geocities.com]

composed by Dave's dad.

It seemed to merit posting here.

Many years,

Neil

btw, the main website, well worth perusing is at

Raymond J. Mastroberte - Orthodox Christian Iconographer [geocities.com]