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Dear Novocilman and Axios,

You guys must be Americans!

In fact, the underground Ukrainian Catholic Church is only part of the story of our Church.

The other part has to do with the many priests that entered the Russian Orthodox Church but who came from Eastern CAtholic families.

These priests did their doctorates in Orthodox seminaries, got ordained as married priests and celebrated the Liturgy in the Churches under communism.

It was these priests, not the Underground Church, bless it, that helped resurrect the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

This started some years back when one of these Ukrainian priests in the Russian Orthodox Church met a Russian Orthodox bishop, as per usual, at the door of his parish during an episcopal visitation.

But instead of greeting him, this priest began singing "Many Years" in honour of Pope John Paul II, to the consternation of the Russian Orthodox bishop.

Later that day, many similar Orthodox priests were singing "Mnohaya Lita" and we know the rest of the story.

The Ukrainian Catholic Church over there has more priests, monks and nuns than they really need - although you can't ever have enough

The UGCC sends priests to serve its communities in Kazakhstan and Siberia.

Give it some more time and we'll have missionaries elsewhere . . .

How about some married priests in Pittsburgh or Parma?

Alex

I humbly beg to differ. Those priests who left the Catholic Church for the Orthodox in fact, left the Church - they were no longer Catholic. They did not help the Catholic Church by abandoning Her. They hurt Her and made things very much more difficult for those who chose to remain, suffering oftentimes brutal and horrendous punishments. I mean no disrespect to you as an Orthodox believer, however, my opinions are from the Ukrainain Catholic perspective and I make no appologies for them.

Now I do know of some instances (two specifically) where the Orthodox estalishment - for whatever reason - did earnestly help the Ukrainian Greek Catholics in thier studies and ministry while they were 'underground', but those instances are not that numerous. Oftentimes the Orthodox actually helped the government persecute the Catholics. And yes, although I am American, I've had (and continue to have) family in the Ukraine from before WW2 until the present day and have kept abreast of the development there in realtime. It was impossible not to! I'm comfortable that I have a pretty good and accurate idea of what went on there then and what goes on there now; the good and the bad.

But back to the original point, not only did the underground Church survive - it thrived, it did so - I do admit - not under its own steam. It had a tremendous amount of help, both material and spiritual and from many, many places. But it was the Catholic Church in exile - those just like me and my family who came from there - the diaspora, which helped most notably the Church in the Ukraine survive the persecutions. Our own parishes - my own family - sent thousands of dollars in gold and silver hidden in packages, along with food, medicine, clothes, religious articles, etc. We wrote the Congressmen, Senators, Embassies, and Newspapers on their behalf. We had all even sposored many people to come to the States (legally and illegally) from there and have a very good idea of the influences which actually guided the existance and ultimately the resurrection of our Church in the motherland.

Ultimately, our Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has fought very hard and bravely for its very existance; as it had from its very beginnings. Its mentality, then, was physical survival. Now that the official persecutions are over, we can begin to savor our freedom and learn to not be only a minority ethic Church, but find ways of making ourselves applicable and viable in the societies and cultures we now find ourselves in. We have much to offer. That will take time, prayer, and patience.

Ide zBohom

Married UGC priests are already there, in the city of Pittburgh at least.

After re-reading my post (I quickly slapped it up since I am at work, ooops) I noticed it came across as being much more sour and cynical than I indended. I appologize before hand to anyone it might offend - especially the Orthodox (and you Orthodox Believer).

Obviously we all feel very strongly about our beliefs and are, I am sure, committed to sharing and exchanging our thoughts and ideas in a patient, charitable, and Christian fashion. I don't think I met those standards this time and I'm sorry.

Again, my appologies.

Dear Novocilman,

I fear you misunderstand me! I too am Ukrainian Catholic!

I had several relatives who grew up under the Soviet system and became Orthodox Priests under the Moscow Patriarchate - all of them are now Ukrainian Greek Catholic priests.

I am talking mainly of those who grew up under Orthodoxy and Soviet rule.

It was these priests who led the way for the rebirth of the UGCC in Ukraine - not the Underground Church, although that Church had its important role to play.

Don't take my word for it.

But if you want to discuss it further, I am more than willing.

Alex

Dear Tony,

I was speaking about married priests for the Ruthenian Church.

Or is your Church frantically ordaining married men to the priesthood right now?

In that case . . . sorry for bringing it up

Alex

Alex,

Hmmm..the church I belong to does ordain married men to the priesthood, not frantically though there is usually a nice pace, no need to rush.

As for the Ruthenian BC Church I don't think they are ordaining married men to the priesthood in this country, AFAIK.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post? You said:

That sounds like an offer not a question.

Tony

Dear Tony,

I meant it as both, actually!

You are in Crestwood?

Does this mean you are a seminarian at St. Vladimir's?

If so, please do tell us the truth about how Anastasios is really doing with his studies!

Alex

Alex,

Yes I am a student at St. Vladimir's. Anastasios can speak for himself regarding his studies, I am sure if you ask him he will tell.

Tony

There are married priests in Parma and Pittsburgh - but within Ukrainian Catholic eparchies.

For the UGCs, Pittburgh is within the eparchy of Parma.

For the Ruthenians, Parma and Pittsburgh are two distinct eparchies. I don't know about Parma, but Pitttburgh has a UGC married priest in a Ruthenian parish.

Triva time:

Is Parma the smallest city in the world with two Catholic Dioceses?

Is Lviv the only city in the world with two Cardinal Metropolitan Archbishops?

Is Pittsburgh is the only city in the US with a Catholic Archbishop who is not Roman Catholic?

Philadelphia is the only city in the US with two Catholic Archbishops.

Dear John Two Lungs,

I really don't know . . .

When I think of the U.S., I think of Hollywood, Florida beaches, New Orleans Mardi Gras parades and New York City shopping . . .

Sorry . . .

Alex

There is also a married ex-Lutheran priest, who was received as a Roman Catholic priest, and is tri-ritual (Roman, Byzantine, and Maronite) who is assisting the Ruthenian parish in Tulsa, Oklahoma within the boundary of the Ruthenian Archeparchy.

But the point is, Tony, that none of these married clergy originated from the Ruthenian Metropolia. They either are on loan from the Ukrainian Church in the case you mentioned or in the instance of Tulsa, on loan from the Romans.
It's ironic that the Romans loan a married priest to a Byzantine metropolia with celibate clergy. I hope and pray this situation will end someday with the Ruthenian Metropolia.

Actually the boundaries of the UGCC Eparchy of Parma do not coincide with the boundaries of the Ruthenian Eparchy of Parma, and the UGCC Eparchy of Parma only covers the western part of Pennsylvania including Pittsburgh. I am in Kansas which is within the Ukrainian Eparchy of Chicago but within (the last time I checked this, anyway) the Ruthenian Eparchy of Parma. It can get a bit confusing on the ecclesial map.

That was clear to me long before this post.