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I did a search fo this topic and didn't see where it has been discussed before. Maybe I'm just missing it. Do Eastern Catholics accept the distinction between Mortal and Venial sin?

THanks

Jason a sinner

Dear sinner,
I'ld be inclined to respond that this is a distinction which one need neither accept nor reject. Clearly some sins are more serious than others.

Incognitus

I remember there being a discussion five or six years ago, which may go beyond the search engine - not sure though.

Since the earliest of times in the Church, there has always been a distinction made between lesser and greater sins. This is evidenced by the practices associated with ecclesial penance and reconciliation, and the gradual development of the order of penitents. Perhaps the best study of this development is found in Father Joseph Favazza's The Order of Penitents: Historical Roots and Pastoral Future , published by Liturgical Press in 1988. He spends most of the book (which is based upon his doctoral dissertation) delving into the patristic practice of penance, and has a whole chapter dedicated to the 3rd Century witnesses to the use of ecclesial penance in the Christian East. It is a great read and a great addition to any theological library on the subject.

I also recall Bishop Fulton Sheen's comment that he disclosed while confessing to a priest when asked "Now is what you have done a mortal sin or a venial sin?" His response was - "I don't care Father! I've offended the love of God and I want to repent!"

Such distinctions may be helpful when discerning ones approach to the Chalice, but ultimately all sins offend the love of God and fall short of His glory in which we are called to share. But, as St. Isaac the Syrian indicates, "Our sins are as so many grains of sand cast into the ocean of God's mercy."...a passage of his I sometimes ponder while travelling over oceans from time to time.

God bless!

Gordo

Dear Friends,

I know an Orthodox priest who just LOVES to excommunicate people for certain sins i.e. apply the canons to them forbidding them to approach Holy Communion for a certain period of time.

St Basil the Great wrote that any Christian who missed the DIvine Liturgy for three consecutive Lordsdays in a row (by his own fault) should be excommunicated in like manner.

My former employer of some years back, a Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox, told me about how he went to Confession and his priest refused to grant him absolution - because he had just confessed the same sin two weeks before . . .

He said, "This isn't a joke, you know! Don't be offended, but I'm not going to give you absolution - kiss the Cross and the Gospels here, and go away to think about amending your life. And when you've determined to do so, then come back and we'll talk again . . . And, by the way, Vlad, did you fulfill the Rule of Preparation for Confession? No?! I'll show you . . .!"

The ROCOR prescribes the reading of the full Canon of St Andrew of Crete prior to Confession - this is what my old boss was doing when I met him later that day . . .

We Eastern Catholics have it easy!

(With apologies to Fr. Deacon Lance for mentioning yet another ritual prayer form . . . ).

Alex

The Eastern Church (at least the Orthodox Church) doesn't focus on the distinctions between "mortal" and "venial" sin. I find this the best path. We know from reading Sacred Scripture, that certain sins indeed are deadly or "mortal" (cf. 1 Cor. 6:9), but the reason why any sin would fall into such a category is because it leads one completely away from the source of all life, who is Jesus Christ, not because the Church threatens you with hell for committing it. Like the early Church, the Eastern Church doesn't get too legalistic with things, and simply focuses on setting right all sin.

In my own experience, the Roman Catholic emphasis on the distinctions between sins can easily lead to scrupulosity. This happens especially when Roman Catholics really get serious about their spiritual life and the desire not to sin. Instead of seeking to live a virtous life and attain union with God, the Christian ends up worrying if he has crossed the line into mortal sin (e.g. Did I eat enough to commit gluttony? Did I think an impure thought? Will I have to confess a sin I'm unsure of? Am I really unsure of it, or just trying to get out of Confession?) these questions, and those like them, easily pervert the true meaning of the Christian life. And, as long as the distinctions between sins are emphasized, scrupulosity is the logical result.

The Eastern answer to sin is simply to go to Confession before you receive Holy Communion. In kneeling before the icon of Christ, with the priest as a witness, the penitent sets right anything he/she has done against God during the week. When gazing at the icon of Christ, all talk of "mortal" and "venial" sin is ignored. The only thing we are concerned about is to set right all the times we have "missed the mark", wherever it be at. And when the priest imparts God's forgiveness in absolution, we know we are forgiven.

Adam

Adam,

Scrupulosity is its own unique phenomenon, possibly linked to a type of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder). Typically, a symptom of scrupulosity in a person is that they lose sight of the "bigger picture" of God's Fatherly mercy by excessively focusing on the distinctions between mortal and venial sins. But it far more than that, of course. As someone who long ago spent 5 years in bondage to this spiritual state of anxiety, my exposure to the spiritual writings and praxis of the Christian East was something of a healing balm.

Here are several milestones in my own healing from scrupulosity that were extremely helpful, as well as some advice for those who struggle.

1. TURNING TO THE TRUE FACE OF GOD - Often the root of the issue with scrupulosity is three- fold: a purely negative view of holiness (absence of sin versus holy praxis), a spiritual pride that one can be truly sinless in this life, and a idolatrous understanding of God. That may strike some as extreme - idolatry...really? Yes - the scrupulous person (or a person on that path) creates in his or her own mind and imagination an image of God that is actually a distorted view of WHO GOD IS and HOW HE HAS REVEALED HIMSELF. The God of the scrupluant is not a God of infinite mercy and a Father who loves His children, but rather is a merciless tyrant, who has an exaggerated obsession with minor faults, waiting in the skies for an excuse to send down the lightning bolts (or a wayward truck just as you pull into the parking lot for confession). It suffices to say that such a deity bears little resemblance to the God revealed by Jesus Christ. A scrupulous person needs to confront this distorted image of God that creates so much anxiety and recognize it for what it is - an idol. The next stage is then to seek the wisdom and guidance of the Church to "re-catechize" the mind and heart according to what is revealed by faith, not contrived in an anguished conscience. A favorite passage of mine from St. Paul that helped me rethink my image of God is "It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance." God is infinitely kind and merciful. He is also truly good, beautiful and desirable. The tyranny of the false god bears little resemblance to the God of revelation.

2. FINDING A SPIRITUAL FATHER - To accomplish this, filial submission to a patient spiritual father is an absolute necessity. The scrupulant's "inner voice" of a distorted and disfigured conscience needs to be replaced with a patient, loving and firm voice of a father. This is why absolute trust in the relationship is a necessity. Often, individuals can become scrupulous after experiencing an authentic conversion (which was my own case). As he or she grows in love for holy things, there is an increasing awareness of one's own shortcomings in relationship to the call to holiness. These areas of sin may have been acceptable or tolerated before one's conversion, and so efforts are made to remove even the desire for sin from the soul by a sheer act of will. An authentic spiritual father can discern the good desire which has been strangled by so much anxiety, and help to ensure its proper cultivation. A good spiritual father also knows how to take sin seriously, without overexaggerating its importance or diminishing the more important focus which should be a positive growth in holiness through development in virtue/orthopraxis.

When possible, the scrupulant should also go to confession weekly at the most, and always to one's spiritual father...o, at least the same confessor if a spiritual father cannot be found or is not accessible. Scruplants are tempted to go to confession almost daily. Rather, they should make a practice of praying for God's healing mercy before an icon of Christ every evening, trusting in His divine compassion until Saturday evening or Sunday morning. I now go every two weeks and sometimes monthly, which to me is more of a healthy spiritual practice.

3. SEEING CONFESSION AS RELATIONSHIP AND WORSHIP - The Eastern practice of confessing before an icon of Christ in the Church is extremely helpful, because it makes confession about a relationship. Many years ago, I began to preface my confessions with "I want to tell the Lord that I am sorry for...". To me, that is the proper orientation of a confession: it is an intimate conversation with the Jesus of the Gospels, who healed and forgave sinners. the focus of confession should not be ones laundry list of sins (I actually made lists, until I was told to stop this practice. now I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide my mind to remember my sins just a few minutes before confession.) As one Melkite priest said to me years ago, "the most important part of our confession is not the number of times we have sinned, although we should share that, but rather the number of times God has shown us His mercy."

As a sacramental mystery, confession is also a celebration of the praise of God for His mercy. Turning it into a dentist office appointment to remove cavities or a confession on a witness stand are mental images that are profoundly unhelpful. Making it an act of worship for me precipitated a fundamental change in my view of what had become a fearful and dreadful burden. (This is not, of course, to discount the image of Christ as Healer or Physician.) Archbishop Joseph Raya's discussion of confession in his book The Face of God was very helpful in opening my eyes to this.

4 - SEEING THE GOOD IN SIN - For me, however, nothing was more profoundly helpful than beginning to adapt my view of sin to a more "Augustinian" perspective. (I realize I just made some of my fellow easterners bristle, but you wil probably find this view in the East as well.) As I began to understand more the nature of sin as a distortion or misuse of the good, I began to adopt a more positive view of temptation: "What is the intrinsic good that I desire in this temptation to sin and what is the virtuous path that I should take to obtain it?" By being objective about the temptation, I no longer had any reason to fear or be anxious about it. By striving for a supernatural perspective (divine light) on the temptation rather than being overwhelmed by it, it vacated any power it had over me or my sense of peace with God. Additionally, I also became better at discerning what I refer to as "being present to the moment". Whenever I was tempted by something in my scrupulous state, I immediately ascribed full and mortal guilt to my conscience, exaggerating my consent to the temptation. Gradually, however, as my anxiety over sin subsided, I became more aware of the movements of my will, distinguishing them from emotions, feelings or imagination. To me, moments when I was fully present in mind and heart to a temptation and yet still chose it were things to confess (if serious). At the same time, virtuous living operates in the same way, and my hope is that I also strive to be fully present to choose the good as well.

5 - SEEKING THE HOPE OF A TRANSFIGURED LIFE - One additional point for me is that I have begun to see my past in the "transfiguring light" of Christ and His mercy. A virtue often lost on the scrupulous is hope. Hope is a ruthless trust in the Father's healing power - His incredible ability to bring good even out of the greatest evil that we might have committed. Hope also has a future orientation that helps us to keep past and present in focus, understanding with St. Isaac the Syrian that "our sins TRULY ARE as so many grains of sand cast in the ocean of God's mercy."

The regular practice of the Jesus Prayer as an act of trust in the Gospel of God's mercy and in the Person of His Son, has helped me to see that I have no reason for anxiety in this life. A better understanding of the stages of growth in the spiritual life as a child of God has also helped me to show myself the patience and humor of a father who is nurturing his child (the soul) as it grows...sometimes stumbling, but always pressing on.

I did not mean to preach here, but I hope that if anyone out there struggles with scrupulosity or is in a position to aid someone who does that my own path out of the trap of needless anxiety may be of some help.

God bless,

Gordo

A propos of "seeing the good in sin" - C.S. Lewis remarked that the devil has never succeeded in "creating" a genuine pleasure - pleasures are the gifts of God.

Incognitus

Thanks guys for your comments.

Jason a sinner

Dear Jason,

When an Orthodox goes to confession he is read a long list of sins. Now considering that we sin almost each and every moment since we have bodies and are absorbed with our 'self', then we have to accept that the sins being read to us are 'mortal' sins and all other sinful limits of our mortal self are venial. It seems the Orthodox do not like to label or catagorize anything and the Latins do.

Now Alex said:

"I know an Orthodox priest who just LOVES to excommunicate people for certain sins i.e. apply the canons to them forbidding them to approach Holy Communion for a certain period of time.

St Basil the Great wrote that any Christian who missed the DIvine Liturgy for three consecutive Lordsdays in a row (by his own fault) should be excommunicated in like manner."

Now I say:

Rare are those Orthodox priests that will not allow 'economia'. Having been to a monastery that follows the cannons to a 'T', I would have to say that very few people would ever be able to receive communion. Do you realize how many years some of those penances are? Did people really live that long?

Zenovia

We sin because we have bodies? I'm sorry, but this sounds rather Western to me (body -> sensual -> bad). The Son of God was made flesh - the same flesh as ours. The Theotoks had a body like ours. We sin - remove ourselves from God's love - by choice, not nature.

As for labelling or not, please remember these are generalisations, not 'absolute' truths.

يا ربي يسوع المسيح،يا ابن الله،ارحمنا نحن الخطأة

Surely there is a difference between saying the "F" word and killing someone!

There have to be certain grades to sin. I don't think that one goes to hell for telling his wife that she doesn't look fat in those jeans when she does. (My wife is not fat, it's just an example )

There were certain penances in the early church for those sins that we would consider mortal that lasted for years. Other venial sins were probably not confessed. Surely the East feels the same way.