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Well, I can honestly say that this thread has been helpful to me, for two reasons.

1.) I can realize that many others are making the same journey and that many have made the journey in the other direction.

2.) As long as things don't become polemical and nasty, it helps us confront the real world fact that people make different choices. As any convert knows it takes a great deal of courage to confront one's family and friends with such a decision. Many people lose their families and friends over such decisions. Indeed, I know people who have had family members completely cut off all ties with them. It really illustrates Our Lord Jesus' saying, "Unless you hate father and mother......" Whatever decisions we make, putting Christ first is bound to cause us problems in the world, even with our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, in cases where there is a misunderstanding. All the more reason why those going through some kind of change like this must be humble and turn the other cheek. Whatever we do, let us not retaliate or become bitter, but rather, as Saint Paul says, return good for evil, and so "heap coals upon their heads," so to speak. In other words, by returning good for insults, we can be a vessel of grace for our brethren. Peace in Christ,

Joe

For those having this conversion to Orthodoxy, is it a conversion to something, away from something, both or neither? If to, what is it? If away, what is it?

I can, obviously, only speak for myself. For me it is neither "away from" or "to" something, exactly. It is simply a matter of more fully understanding the doctrines and dogmatic teachings of both Churches.

I am coming to understand, as I research some of the issues that divide the two, that if I had done more research before converting to Roman Catholicism ... I may not have done it at all.

So, perhaps in essence, if I am turning away from anything it would be from my own incomplete understanding of what I was agreeing to when I received the Sacrament of Confirmation.

Carol, ditto. That is my story, exactly. My understanding of Church history was somewhat superficial when I became Melkite and so was my understanding of the Roman Catholic claims. After years of reflection, intense study (including graduate work), prayer, and soul searching, I came to believe that the claims of Rome are wrong and that the Orthodox church has kept the faith intact without distortion.

That is just my view. I do not intend it to be polemical or to open up any debates. Peace in Christ,

Joe

It appears that the conversion is about doctrines and dogmas - truth and error concering these matters.

In what way do you find "Rome" to be wrong or in error? Your conversions are a fleeing from error to embracing the truth. What is the error which you are fleeing, and the truth you are embracing?

In the Theotokos,

lm

Why do you ask? Is there a purpose behind your inquiry? I don't see this forum as a place to debate the merits of Catholicism vs Orthodoxy. Thus I don't feel it is an appropriate venue for the discussion that you are proposing.

I answered your question. I don't see it as "fleeing" anything. But you're free to believe that is what I am doing if you wish.

If I understand Father Anthony on this, such topics are now out of bounds on the forum, which I believe represents either a real change in policy or a shift in emphasis on existing policies for ByzCath. So Joe is able to assert that Rome is in error (or, by implication, that those in communion with her practice a "distorted faith") without any possibility for a response from Catholics who may disagree. (Or without remark from the moderators...I realize no one can monitor 24 hours a day and we are grateful for your service) To engage in such disagreement is to be "polemical".

What if I were to lay out point by point my rationale for not converting to Orthodoxy? (I'm being rhetorical here - I have no intention of doing this.) As I understand it, such a topic would be too hot to handle. But does that mean we are not now permitted to offer a reasoned challenge to a particular point - such as the implication that those outside of Orthodoxy practice a distorted faith?

Unless I misunderstand this change (and please clarify if I do not understand it properly), I think it risks suppressing the open and engaging dialogue that has characterized the forum for the several years that I have been a member. Some people take things too far, as we saw in this thread, by asserting things that should not be asserted about personal motives, matters of conscience, etc etc. But as I understand it, the value of this forum is its potential for open and honest discussion on the issues that divide us and the faith in Christ that unites us.

But nothing stirs the proverbial pot like a conversion from one side to the other, since, as Im pointed out, it implies some sort of rejection of something in favor of something else. I believe that Joe and Carole and others have thought through their reasons for their conversion. I certainly respect all that Father Anthony has said about the pain of conscience that a convert undergoes in making such a change. I do not ascribe ill will or "spiritual blindness" to those who make this change. But should that preclude those of us here who disagree with what may be asserted about the Catholic faith from seeking to understand more fully their rationale or challenging any negative assertions about their former jurisdictions? (not them personally)

Again, it appears that that is not now permitted.

Gordo,

There are no changes in policy.

I believe that Father Anthony nixed your idea of setting up a debate. There is a difference between people expressing their reasons for moving from one Church to another and discussing it rationally and your invitation to set up purposeful debates on both sides of the issues.

From the day this Forum went online the user agreemented included a promise for users not to engage in "heavy apologetics".

You seem to be very polemical these days�.

Admin

I wasn't aware that I asserted anything about the Catholic faith. I asserted that I had an incomplete understanding of what I was assenting to at my Confirmation. But I have asserted nothing about the Catholic Church, only about my understanding of the Church.

Further I do not see Joe asserting anything about the Church. Only that there were things he disagreed with and does not believe.

Neither of us, if I may speak for Joe for a moment, have made any assertions about any doctrines or dogmas of the Catholic Church so there shouldn't be anything for anyone to address.

Nor have we listed a point by point case for our reasons for converting to Holy Orthodoxy (in Joe's case) or for considering it (in my case).

I believe we were both quite cautious to answer the question prsented to us without engaging in a detailed discussion of our reasons and without telling others what they should do.

Admin,

Thank you for the clarification. Again, I have been somewhat unclear on the parameters of what is permitted and what is verbotten. Six months ago we had a very engaging discussion on a number is issues started by Apotheoun that some may regard as polemical. I think it resulted in one of the most memorable and engaging discussions here since I have been a member. My concern is that such discussions would not now be permitted, and I think, if that is the case, it would greatly lessen the value it has offered in the past.

If I am incorrect in that assumption (or fear), then your clarification of policy (within reason) is helpful.

As to the idea that I am being polemical, I would only ask - Where? When? If you read my posts, I took a more middle of the road position on this thread originally, encouraging those who were converting to remain and stay engaged in our virtual communion.

I guess I went "astray" when I suggested a separate thread to offer reasons for staying in communion, but that idea was vetoed, and as I do NOT pay the bills for this site and am eternally grateful for its existence, I can only place my hands over my mouth (or keyboard) in deference to that decision.

My intent here was not an attack on either policy or you or good Father Anthony. It was more to express disappointment over what I believe (or perhaps misunderstood) to be a change that will affect the open character of the form.

Thank you again for your response.

Regards,

Gordo

Carole,

My apologies, I did not intend to "lump" you in with Joe's statements. I agree - I thought your answer was decidely informative, personal and respectful. I found Joe's assertion that Orthodoxy is a faith without distortion, taken in context, to be by implication an assertion that his former jurisdiction suffers distortion in faith. I believe that that is not too far of a stretch, and is, as I recall, in keeping with the the assertions of some of his previous posts.

God bless,

Gordo

Gordo,

The discussions you mentioned were not specific to anyone�s personal faith journey. They were more in the nature of a general theological discussion.

Admin