www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Ikon of Joseph of Arimethea and Grail at Cross?

Folks,

I have a question for you. I recall seeing in a movie once an ikon which was of Joseph of Arimethea at the foot of the cross capturing the Blood of Christ in the cup used at the Last Supper. It was obviously a reference to the legend associated with the Holy Grail and Arthurian romances of the middle ages.

Can anyone tell me if this is an authentic ikon subject in the tradition? Or was this fabricated for the purpose of this movie? (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).

Incidentally, I'd also be interested in knowing whether this legend of Arimethea and the Cup of the Last Supper is simply a popular folk tale of the middle ages (essentially mythology with Christian trappings for the purpose of chivalraic tales), or whether there was ever any credence given to it in the church previous to that? Even legends must spring from somewhere and don't typically arise out of a vacuum.

My assumption is that it is a popular legend only and that the ikon I saw may have been a bit of Hollywood fantasy cloaked in traditional Christian art. But if anyone knows any historical details about the legend itself, or the ikonic representation of it, I'd be interested in learning more.

I ask mainly out of interest in Arthurian romance of the middle ages and this representation which I saw led to some questions.

Dear SR,

The story of the Grail and St Joseph is really not represented in Byzantine iconography.

However, it was represented in iconography inspired by the Templar Knights.

The Templars believed and their remnants today still believe that a Grail was used to capture drops of Christ's Blood from the Cross and that this was in the safekeeping of St Joseph of Arimathea who brought this to Britain with him, the Glastonbury Thorn etc.

I've had an opportunity to speak with a fellow who has studied the Templar legends and who says there is a Templar "remnant" today. These even have their "bishops" who, in the year 2000, canonized as saints all the Templar martyrs under the Inquisition and in the Holy Land, together with the three hundred pilgrims killed by the Saracens on that fateful Easter Sunday in Jerusalem that prompted King Baldwin to call on the Templars to guard the pilgrims there.

We know that the Shroud of Turin is a Templar relic that belongs, to this day, to the descendants of Geoffroi de Chancey, the nephew of the Geoffroi who, together with Jacques de Molay, was burned to death on the island in the River Seine in France for refusing to disclose the whereabouts of the "Templar treasure."

The superstition of Friday the Thirteenth is also Templar in origin as the Templars were arrested in France on Friday the Thirteenth.

Chess, the banking system, the Black Madonnas, and many other aspects of our culture that we take for granted today were actually introduced into Europe by the Templars, who at one point, controlled one-third of the entire wealth of Europe of their day.

Alex

I thought the superstition of Friday the 13 came from the Last Supper. Judas was the 13th guest.
Also, the supersition of throwing salt over one's right shoulder came from the legend that as Christ said his betrayer would be the one "to dip into the sauce with me", Judas withdrew his hand so quickly he knocked the salt shaker over.

Dear Mike,

Actually, the number "13" was always considered "lucky" by Christians.

In Portugal and elsewhere, there was a tradition of celebrating the repose of the Mother of God on the 13th of every month.

In the West, it is "Friday the 13th" alone that is unlucky, not when the number "13" falls on any other day.

The Templars were arrested on an October Friday the 13th.

Templar "orders" and societies (including the Masonic Templars) still honour the Templars Jacques de Molay and others killed by the French Inquisition on October 13th as an historical day.

You may ask any of these about the Friday the 13th tradition and they will tell you about it . . .

Salt was always considered a religious food-stuff, like water and bread and oil. One greeted guests with bread and salt that was a blessing to protect against evil.

To throw salt over one's shoulder was to attack the devil while turning one's back on him - a dual attack.

What Judas did at the Last Supper that so clearly showed him to be a betrayer is that he put his hand into the same dish as our Lord during mealtime.

By ancient tradition, still observed by the Ethiopians who still eat as a group from one large dish and others, if you eat from the same plate as another, you can never betray that person.

Alex