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I have been told that in the Eastern view, the sacrament of marriage lasts after death and into heaven. What does this mean?

Please be aware that the idea of eternal marriage, which is supported by Fr. Meyendorff, is rejected by Fr. Joseph Allen in his book "Vested in Grace: Priesthood and Marriage in the Christian East"

There is a lot of speculation on the topic and I am not qualified to delve into this topic further so I will let others speak.

In Christ,

anastasios

Dear Mark,

I'll speak, having been given leave by Anastasios, but only he is in a position to say whether I'm qualified or not!

I believe that this relates more to the idea of an eternal spiritual bond between married people, since we know from Christ's teaching in the Gospels that there is no marriage in the next life "nor are they given in marriage."

The Eastern Church has and does allow, with the permission and review of the bishops, up to three marriages, even including after a marriage is dissolved by the Church.

In addition, the marriage bond can be dissolved through monastic tonsure. (Whence the term "Get thee to a nunnery!" - meaning, in effect, "I want this marriage ended!")

But the ideal is one, life-long happy marriage!

And there is no doubt that the sacramental marriage bond is dissolved at the death of a spouse.

But the spiritual bond between two people who have shared so much, who became "one flesh" in marriage certainly continues even into eternity.

I, for one, know that without my wife with me in the next life, it just won't be "heaven!"

Alex

This makes much more sense than how I understood it. Thanks Alex.

-Mark

OK, I'll bite at this one.

Unfortunately, I'll have to disagree with my good friend, Alex.

At least from an Orthodox understanding, marriage is sacramental precisely because it is meant to be "perfect" and "eternal," "Love never ends..." (I Cor 13) While the passage quoted by Alex would on the surface seem to dispute this, what it is showing is not that marriage is somehow dissolved, but that it is perfected - "they become like angels in heaven" that is, constantly doing the will of God. "They are neither married nor are given in marriage" speaks to "changing your state" in heaven in relation to marriage. This passage is not so much a commentary on marriage, as on resurrection. They tried to entrap Christ regarding the resurrection. However, St. Theophylact comments on this passage saying that "she shall be the wife of him who first married her, if we conceed that there is marriage in the resurrection."

Also, the admittance of two other marriages is only a concession to weakness, not an a confirmation of marriage as simply an "earthly contract." There is no separation of physical and spritual, especially in light of the resurrection.

Of course, as of late, none of my posts would be complete without a healthy dose of Fr. Hopko. It also saves me from carpel-tunnel syndrome.

Priest Thomas
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http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Worship/Marriage.html

Marriage was not invented or instituted by Christ. The Lord, however, gave a very specific meaning and significance to human marriage. Following the Old Testament Law, but going beyond its formal precepts in his messianic perfection, Jesus taught the uniqueness of human marriage as the most perfect natural expression of God's love for men, and of his own love for the Church.

According to Christ, in order for the love of a man and woman to be that which God has: perfectly created it to be, it must be unique, indestructible, unending and divine. The Lord himself has not only given this teaching, but he also gives the power to fulfill it in the sacrament of Christian marriage in the Church.

In the sacrament of marriage, a man and a woman are given the possibility to become one spirit and one flesh in a way which no human love can provide by itself. In Christian marriage the Holy Spirit is given so that what is begun on earth does not "part in death" but is fulfilled and continues most perfectly in the Kingdom of God.

For centuries there was no particular ritual for marriage in the Church. The two Christians expressed their mutual love in the Church and received the blessing of God upon their union which was sealed in the holy eucharist of Christ. Through the Church's formal recognition of the couple's unity, and its incorporation into the Body of Christ, the marriage became Christian; that is, it became the created image of the divine love of God which is eternal, unique, indivisible and unending ....

According to the Orthodox teaching, only one marriage can contain the perfect meaning and significance which Christ has given to this reality. Thus, the Orthodox Christian tradition encourages widows and widowers to remain faithful to their spouses who are dead to this world but alive in Christ. The Orthodox tradition also, by the same principle, considers temporary "living together," casual sexual relations, sexual relations with many different people, sexual relations between members of thie same sex, and the breakdown of marriages in separation and divorce, all as contrary to the human perfection revealed by God in Christ. Through penance, however, and with the sincere confession of sins and the genuine promise of a good life together, the Orthodox Church does have a service of second marriage for those who have not been able to fulfill the ideal conditions of marriage as taught by Christ. It is the practice of the Church as well not to exclude members of second marriages from the sacrament of holy communion if they desire sincerely to be in eucharistic fellowship with God, and if they fulfill all other conditions for participation in the life of the Church.

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Bless me a sinner, Reverend Father!

Excellent!

But . . .

You have discussed the ideal, a beautiful ideal at that.

Does not the Orthodox Church allow for second marriages (human weakness, of course) after a dissolved first marriage?

Does not the Orthodox Church allow for sacramental remarriage after the death of a spouse?

How do these ecclesial realities impact on the ideal?

Alex

Alex,

What if two people are devout Orthodox Christians and they receive a Christian, sacramental marriage. They're bound to one another in Christ. But one of them apostasizes before death with no signs of repentance or renewal of faith. How can this bond endure into heaven and the general resurrection, when one spouse is headed to heaven and the other to hell?

Has this question ever been dealt with?

"Married and being given in marriage" is a reference to the act of becoming married, it is not implying that those who were married in the past are not also considered married in heaven.

In most languages, the man "marries" and the woman is "given in marriage." For example, in Russian, the man literally "wifes" himself ("zhenilcya" is a reflexive verb). The wife "goes for a husband" ("xhodila zamyzh" is transitive).

Please correct me if I'm wrong (again), but I believe that the scriptural passage in Greek is trying to do the same thing.

In Christ.

Dear Marshall,

I'm sure we'll hear what Frs. Soroka and Hopko have to say about it!

I bow out before such esteemed company!

Alex

Dear Reader Rubis,

You are not wrong, but most correct!

I cannot stand to be in the glare of so many theological bright lights!

I'll stick to my one marriage, and will call it a day!

Alex

May the Lord God bless you!

Do we not allow repentant sinners back into the community? The "ideal" that I discussed was simply the theology of the church, the "reality" of its practice. Even the prayers of the marriage speak of an "indissoluble bond of love." Where in the service does it say anything about "till death do us part?" Lex orandi, lex credendi... Read the service and let me know.

All of this is impacted about what we believe about death, also. "God is not a God of the dead, but of the living..." Why do we pray for the dead? Why do we ask for the intercession of the Saints? Is it "all over" after death? Are sacraments not for "eternal life"?

I can't see how Hopko's explanation could be any clearer. The first marriage is the true marriage. (To the extent it was given grace to be perfected.) Other marriages are only and barely tolerated by the church, and only out of human weakness. To the extent this is abused, priest and bishops and lay people will answer to God for it, but we certainly shouldn't be forming our theology out of it. Theology is always the ideal. It is also the reality of the kingdom of God. The truth that is God himself.

Besides, a marriage that is purely earthly and mortal and fallen, I'd want no part of. It sounds dreadful.

Priest Thomas

Regarding the damned (that spouse who was condemned to hell), some theologians have postulated that we will remember them no more.

If we look in Psalms, the Final Judgement in the Gospel, and elsewhere, we hear over and over again that the righteous are to be "remembered" and the wicked are to be "forgotten." Christ will say to them, "I don't know you."

This is one way to explain how the saved will be able to remain in heavenly joy; since they will not remember anything regarding the damned, they will be spared this sadness.

In Christ.

Was this question taken from Thomas' Summa Theologica?

I think we also have to look at this question from the other side. What does it mean when we say "there is no marriage in heaven"? Does it mean that a former spouse is free to look around? Does it mean that there are no longer "obligations"? What exactly is being implied? If you look at marraige "contractually" (and by the way, the western and eastern understanding and theology of marriage are COMPLETELY different, having taken the famed (western) marriage course of Fr. Bushinski (sp?) at Duquesne) than these questions indeed become plausible. A good idea for the list memebers would also be to study the Roman understanding of marriage in contrast to the Orthodox.

If marriage is a union of love which is a sign of Christ's love for the Church, and in heaven, the "consumation" of that marriage (between Christ and the Church) will have taken place, then indeed human marraige becomes even more significant. Not in terms of "obligations" and "rights" but in terms of the only thing that will matter in the Kingdom of God: love.

Priest Thomas

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas!

Is it just me, or do I detect that a number of us have sore arms from shoveling too much snow?

And since when do Orthodox priests quote Latin ?

Yes, the ideal is clear! And we should strive to live by the ideal - you are preaching to the converted here, Father . . .

But if the Orthodox Church herself believed in the ideal as you say it does/should, then why bother giving sacramental second marriages, even when they are barely tolerated?

Are you saying that the second barely-tolerated marriage of someone who had his or her first marriage dissolved by the Church not REALLY a marriage? If the first marriage was dissolved, was it dissolved, or is it still the "first marriage" and by right the only real one?

I just don't understand the praxis here, Father, apart from the 'orandi, credendi" thing.

I'm too old to go back to the seminary and complete my "first love" which is Eastern theology.

And my voice stinks, so I'll never be a priest.

So if you need to shovel more snow, go ahead, and I'll hear from you later . . .

God bless,

Alex