|
1 members (KostaC),
448
guests, and
115
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,524
Posts417,637
Members6,176
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 92
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 92 |
I was thinking of attending Great Vespers and Divine Liturgy at 5pm on Christmas Eve. In the West, it is okay to do this for Christmas liturgy. Is it the same in the East?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,700
Administrator Member
|
|
Administrator Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,700 |
Dear Madeforcommunion,
This year on the new calendar, because Christmas falls on Sunday, Vespers is not joined to the Liturgy of St. Basil on the 24th. Liturgy of Chrysostom is celebrated in the morning of Saturday the 24th. Great Vespers Saturday evening, and Matins and Divine Liturgy of Saint Basil on Sunday (Christmas Day).
the unworthy,
Elias
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 92
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 92 |
Well, at my parish their having Divine Liturgy at 5pm after Great Vespers on Christmas Eve, will this by the Liturgy of St. Basil, they normally don't have Divine Liturgy at 5pm on Saturday nights.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,700
Administrator Member
|
|
Administrator Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,700 |
Dear Madeforcommunion,
To answer your first question, it is certainly o.k. for this to be your Christmas Liturgy! I'm sure that is why your pastor is offering this option, for those who wish to attend Liturgy on Christmas eve.
the unworthy,
Elias
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177 |
If Christmas Eve falls on Mon-Fri the schedule looks like this:
* Matins
* Royal Hours
* Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great
* Great Compline with Lytia (or Vigil: Great Compline with Lytia, Matins, First Hour)
On Christmas day (Tue-Sat) the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom is served.
This changes when Christmas Eve falls on Saturday or Sunday. Royal Hours are served on Friday and there is no Liturgy that day. Christmas Eve is an a-liturgical day, but Saturday and Sunday, by nature, cannot be a-liturgical, so it gets moved back to Friday. The Sat-Sun schedule is then:
* Matins
* Hours (regular)
* Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom (in the AM)
* Great Vespers
* Great Compline / Vigil as above.
In this variation the Liturgy on Christmas day (Sun-Mon) is that of St Basil the Great.
Serving the Liturgy of St Basil after Vespers on Christmas Eve (new calendar) this year is wrong. But when has this ever stopped clergy?
Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 92
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 92 |
Okay, I'm not sure what to do, but thanks for the information.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 784
Member Member
|
|
Member Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 784 |
According to my pastor, we will have "Midnight Mass at 10pm."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177 |
Originally posted by ukrainiancatholic:
According to my pastor, we will have "Midnight Mass at 10pm." Soson, Kyrie... Sadly, the above example of "creative liturgics" is not uncommon.  Oυτις ημιν φιλει ου φροντιδα | Nemo Nos Diliget Non Curamus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 533 Likes: 2
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 533 Likes: 2 |
If I may add to this discussion,my wife's parish made up of ex-Greek Catholics from the Lemko region used to refer to Matins as "Low Mass".People would come to Sunday Morning Matins and NOT return for Liturgy as a rule.For Nativity, they USED to do the Complines with Litiya and Matins at Midnight with Liturgy in the morning.Nowadays,the Nativity Vigil begins earlier in the evening per Russian practice, though Sunday Matins are still served in the morning.I don't know if it is still called "Low Mass".The outline KO63AP described would be the Russian/Ukrainian usage, except that probably in most Russian parishes when the Royal Hours would be served in the morning,the Matins would be served the night before(if at all).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 788
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 788 |
Originally posted by KO63AP: Soson, Kyrie...
Sadly, the above example of "creative liturgics" is not uncommon. *crosses self piously* Libera nos, Domine!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 76
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 76 |
Not too discourage the interesting liturgical/typicon discussion, but I believe the simple answer to your question MadeForCommunion is yes. It is OK to attend an evening Vespers/Liturgy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1 |
Andrij, I believe Kallistos indicates there is no Great Compline if Christmas falls on Sunday or Monday (Greek usage).
DRLB
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24 |
Fr. Deacon Randolph,
The Greeks omit Great Compline because they do Vigil with Great Vespers and Matins as usual. The Slavs do Great Compline anyway because they do Vespers right after Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and do Vigil with Great Compline and Matin or Great Compline by itself. Why this discpency exist I cannot say.
Fr. Deacon Lance
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24 |
MforC,
Among us Byzantines there is what the Typicon says to do and what actually gets done. In the end the priest is doing what he believes is best for parish given its circumstances and has his bihop's blessing to do it. Enjoy the Liturgy.
Fr. Deacon Lance
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Dear Father Deacon Lance,
Again, I don't know why you don't become a Priest!!
(I'm not just referring to your wide knowledge of church gossip either - although that is fascinating too!)
If I had my way, things would be done a whole lot differently in my parish. But I"m not the parish priest and I cannot see the pastoral needs and sensitivities as my parish priest does.
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
