www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Converts From Eastern Catholicism

Dear Brian,

Thanks for sharing that link!

If you have any problems with the Administrator on that score, I'll defend you!

Alex

But Alex I compliment you every time that you are very well spoken.

Don't you think that the Marines are going to be of great help in Daniel's formation.

what does Orthodoxy have to do with the Marine Corps?

In Christ
OoRAH Orthodox Inquier!

Everyone,

This brings up an important point. Sometimes we Eastern Catholics are our worst enemies. When I was new in my faith, I met Eastern Catholics (even priests) who adamantly denied papal primacy, and sometimes even uncritically accepted anti-papal polemics. At one point they almost had me convinced that the papacy was utterly worthless, and I was ready to jump ship... until I studied the issue more deeply. As others have indicated, things become more complicated the harder you look at them.

Some of you may disagree with me, but it is necessary for Eastern Catholics to come to terms with papal primacy, and to understand that the papacy ultimately plays an important role in God's design for the Church. Otherwise, there is no point in us being in communion with Rome, especially with all of the abuse that we have had to put up with from certain members of the Catholic communion.

If I believed that Papal primacy wasn't important, I would become Orthodox first thing tommorrow, and have instant gratification: a full cycle of liturgical services, a married priesthood. It is only because I believe in the papacy that I remain Eastern Catholic, and continue to join others in the struggle to restore our identity.

Anthony

Brian,

Thanks for the link. While I don�t agree with every point the author has made he does echo several points I have made repeatedly over the years. When I dialogue with people who have e-mailed byzcath with questions about becoming Byzantine Catholic I usually politely suggest they consider carefully if they are fleeing or seeking. Those fleeing something they don�t like in another Church generally won�t be happy anywhere. They have issues to work out that are not always faith issues. Those who are seeking something they have not found in their previous Church usually find a home in the Byzantine Catholic Church.

Generally speaking, those who start off as very traditional Roman Catholics and then reject the Roman Catholic Church for Byzantine Catholicism, then move to mainline Orthodoxy (OCA, Antiochians, etc.), then start quoting the typicon to cradles and pointing out their mistakes, then move to a traditionalist flavor of Orthodoxy and spend all their time condemning the heresies of Roman Catholicism usually wind up back in the Roman Catholic Church within five years. Those who are not fleeing but really concentrate on seeking are usually content in their new Church home.

This is a short answer to complex issue but I hope I have made point clearly.

Admin

Anthony,

with respect, I would not say Orthodoxy is EVER instant gratification, it is an ascetic Faith and a way of life and as you know much more then liturgical services and a married priesthood.
One of the reasons why I could not personally remain Eastern Catholic or consider myself "Orthodox in Communion with Rome" and yes, I used that term for many years, is that I could not justify calling myself Orthodox while being in communion with a Church which had encapsulated "Pastor Aeternus" into it's Dogma which is (in my opinion) alien to the mentality of the Eastern Church.

Not just Orthodoxy.

Alex described rather beautifully the callowness of youth and a view of "church" that entails shopping and hopping to find the "right" milieu, rather than committing to a personal conversion to kenotic service and passionate fidelity.

Now, you do the math.

Dear djs,

You overwhelm me, Sir!

Now I'll get out my dictionary . . .

God bless you at the New Year!

Alex

Dear Anthony,

Actually, the kind of instant gratification you are talking about has to do with the UGCC . . .

Oops! I think I here Davidb going to the wood-shed in search of some switches!



Alex

I also have left the Byzantine Church for the Church Abroad and wont say that is was all for Theological or Spiritual reasons. Some of the biggest reasons were the Liturgy and the fact that the readings,tropars and kondaks were in direct conflict with the Priest and the Sermon. In my experance I have seen that the basic Theology in the Orthodox circles is the same.I dont have any ill feelings for the BCC but was sad that it didnt work out for me and my family.

As someone who spent most of his life in the Marines I can understand the need for rules and regulations. I think that is why I have found the Church Abroad very comforting. I know that there is alot of Polemics in the Church Abroad and have always tried to stay out of them. But this goes for all the Churches east and west. I am just the kind of person that likes my issues to be black and white at this stage in my life. Chad

Dear Friends,

I think that our Byzantine Guru, Anthony Dragani, raises a fascinating point that has been around in our Eastern Catholic Churches for a long time.

Some of our religious Orders and others truly do believe that for us to be "Orthodox" in every which way but the Pope is not "enough" to KEEP us with Rome.

They believe that at the first sign of trouble, we'll become Orthodox OUT OF communion with Rome.

And that is why they promote certain Latin cultural/ritual aspects in our Churches that we often call "Latinizations."

Fr. Ireneaus Nazarko, OSBM, refers to the "Catholic" elements being "inserted" into the Eastern traditions of the Ruthenian Catholic Church at the Synod of Zamoist ie certain Latin devotions.

In Eastern Europe today, the "litmus test" for one's Catholicity (ie. union with Rome) has tended to become devotion to the Sacred Heart, Eucharistic Benediction, public recitation of the rosary et al.

I do know some real "Orthodox in communion with Rome" types who would truly, at the drop of a hat, become members of an Orthodox Christian jurisdiction.

Anthony raises his own point of struggle, which is a valid one.

Any thoughts on this?

Alex

Dear Friends,

I think that our Byzantine Guru, Anthony Dragani, raises a fascinating point that has been around in our Eastern Catholic Churches for a long time.

Some of our religious Orders and others truly do believe that for us to be "Orthodox" in every which way but the Pope is not "enough" to KEEP us with Rome.

They believe that at the first sign of trouble, we'll become Orthodox OUT OF communion with Rome.

And that is why they promote certain Latin cultural/ritual aspects in our Churches that we often call "Latinizations."

Fr. Ireneaus Nazarko, OSBM, refers to the "Catholic" elements being "inserted" into the Eastern traditions of the Ruthenian Catholic Church at the Synod of Zamoist ie certain Latin devotions.

In Eastern Europe today, the "litmus test" for one's Catholicity (ie. union with Rome) has tended to become devotion to the Sacred Heart, Eucharistic Benediction, public recitation of the rosary et al.

I do know some real "Orthodox in communion with Rome" types who would truly, at the drop of a hat, become members of an Orthodox Christian jurisdiction.

Anthony raises his own point of struggle, which is a valid one.

Any thoughts on this?

Alex

Dear C4C,

Knowing of your Marine background, if you think I'm going to argue with you here . . . I'm not . . .

Alex

Brian,

I did not intend to mean that Orthodoxy itself is "instant gratification." Rather, I meant that I would experience instant gratification on two important points: a full cycle of liturgical services, and the married priesthood. Here in the Ruthenian Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, for the most part, these two possibilities sometimes appear to be but elusive dreams. As for the asceticism and spirituality of Eastern Orthodoxy, I am already experience those in Byzantine Catholicism, although I do not always live them out as fully as I should.

Anthony

You all know what I have to say.

I am happy with my decision to convert to Orthodoxy, I have no regrets what so ever in leaving the Byzantine Catholic Church.

In Christ
Daniel