www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Unofficial version of Creed made official

The version of the Nicene Creed you will see reprinted below in its original form is not a version approved by the Holy Synod of the UGCC. It was translated from the original Greek for official use in a Ukrainian Catholic parish at every Divine Liturgy for when the Creed is to be sung in English. The priest who translated this version, and mandated its use, did so without approval of the Eparchial bishop of the Holy Synod of the UGCC.

Here it is with its original punctuation, spelling and spacing.

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I believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, the only begotten,
born of the Father before all ages.

Light of Light, true God of true God,
begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father,
through whom all things were made.

Who for us men and our salvation came down from heaven,
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit, and Mary the Virgin, and became man.

He was also crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried,
and he rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures.

And he ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.
And he will come again with glory, to judge the living and the dead,
and of his kingdom there will be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit the Lord, and giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father (and the Son).

Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified,
who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church,
I profess one baptism for the remission of sins.

I expect the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

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Now, is this version theologically correct?

Do the words change, or imply different a theological understanding?

Help....

-uc

Dear UC,

I looked it over. I am familiar with this translation. It is used in some churches (Orthodox) with the difference of the word "substance" and of course without the filoque. Generally, I have seen the word "essence" used instead. Now I leave commentary on that to some of the others.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Fr. Anthony,

If the above version is almost identical to some Orthodox versions, then it would be a coincidence. The priest translated the above version from the Greek himself. He would never allow an Orthodox version.

-uc

UC,

I guess coincidences happen :rolleyes: .

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

It is virtually identical to what we use in the (Ruthenian/Rusyn) Metropolia of Pittsburgh, except that we don't use the "filioque".

Fr. Deacon Robert

Isn't it supposed to say "God of God, Light of Light, True God of True God?"

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/niceneg.htm

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/creed.nicene.txt

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/nicenecreed.html

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/nicene.creed.html

I linked a few pages to get different translations.

I've been in the Pittsburgh Metropolia since 1970. We've always said "Light of Light, True God of True God" (or "Sv'ita ot s'vita, Boha istinna ot Boha istinna" in Church Slavonic).

Dn. Robert

Dear UC,

Here is the Creed we sing every Divine Liturgy [stanne-byzcath.org] :

PEOPLE: I believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, the only-begotten,
born of the Father before all ages.

Light of Light, true God of true God,
begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father,
through whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven,
and was incarnate from the Holy Spirit and Mary the Virgin, and became man.

He was also crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered, and was buried.
And He arose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures.

And He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.
And He will come again with glory, to judge the living and the dead,
and of His kingdom there will be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.

Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified,
Who spoke through the prophets.

In one holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
I profess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I expect the resurrection of the dead;
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

It is virtually identical, with a couple different placements on commas here and there (and as you can see, the filioque is not used).

What is so different in the Creed that you posted that prompted this topic? I am not familiar with various versions of the Creed other than substance versus essence.

I appreciate you pointing out your concerns.

In Christ,

Michael

These versions of the Creed sound exactly as I learned it in Sunday School way back in the fifth grade!

In Christ,
Alice

That is a bit reduntant and does not show up in the original Greek here in transliteration:

Fos ek fotos, Theon alithinon ek Theou alithinou
yenithenta, ou piithenta, omoousion to Patri, di ou ta panta
eyeneto.

There is no seperate part in that sentence that says God of God. There are just two statements there, Light of Light (Fos ek fotos), and true God of True God (Theon alithinon ek Theou alithinou). The words Theon and alithinon agree with each other, so to seperate the two would be bad translation.

Yes with only a few differences, as Father Anthony pointed out the word "Essence" is used instead of "Substance". Also the word order we use is "The only begotten son of God". Other than that it is the same version we teach to the Sunday School kids, and the version I learned as well.

Dear Greggy,

In my church we have, I believe, stopped using the 'again' in: 'and on the third day he rose AGAIN'--My priest brought to our attention that our Lord did not rise AGAIN....and as you know, in Greek, it is 'kai anastanta tin triti imera', which says nothing about 'again'...

I have noticed that there are different versions of the Creed used in different parishes, including my own, but the one above posted by Michael/Lost and Found is how I remember learning it and how I still prefer to say it.

Ofcourse, it is so much easier for me to say it in Greek, where the version is the same--ALWAYS!

I remember baptizing my goddaughter in a small village church on the island of Chios and how impressed everyone was that this young American woman was able to say the Creed out loud in Greek without having to read it! (Thanks to the same fifth grade Sunday School class and those weekly tests!)

In Christ,
Alice

Two seemingly simple questions:

1. Is there anything wrong with the English Creed used by the Latins in the US (save for the "we", the filioque, "Deum de deo", "one in being",etc. which can be changed)?

2. If a modified version of the ICEL creed isn't acceptable, is it possible to have a "translation committee" of an ad hoc "Standing Council of Byzantine Catholic Bishops in America" translate a Creed from Greek that all can accept?

Maybe if #2 is successful we can even move on to a SCBCBA standard translation of the Divine Liturgy. To say nothing of a common translation of the horlogion, menaia........

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkosC:
[QB] 1. Is there anything wrong with the English Creed used by the Latins in the US (save for the "we", the filioque, "Deum de deo", "one in being",etc. which can be changed)?

One additional thing that I find problematic with the current ICEL usage is that there is a supression of the term "incarnate".

Dn. Robert

That's one of the pluses of the Greek I can go to any Greek parish and it will be said exactly the same.

Also, we don't use the again as you pointed out, but recently we changed priests, and our new Presbyter has an entirely different translation. That and he has the heaviest accent so the kids are kind of put off, because they have learned it differently.