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Jonn is right; modern Protestants under the influence of John Wesley long ago left Calvinism and Lutheranism's denial of free will and sanctification. The Wesleyan movement embraced a much more Catholic approach that emphasized personal transformation. Where they went off is in emphasizing the emotional dimension of this experience, and among Holiness believers, in claiming that one can achieve perfection in this life, usually involving a second emotional experience. Still all in all much closer to Catholic and Orthodox beliefs than classical Reformed belief.
If they are successful in converting our people perhaps it is because they manifest the fruits of conversion more than we do...
-Daniel

John,

Good idea. Now, here is hopefully a good question: How can we give what so many of us do not have?

I don't dispute the fuller presentation of the Gospel that is possible in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

Instead, I suggest that many people in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches haven't really *begun* living the Gospel, on the level of the heart, because they have not yet met He who is Gospel, Jesus Christ, in their hearts and in their lives.

--John

Maybe because of all the distractions of the modern period, we have pushed the whole process of conversion out from our lexicon. How many really study what the faith truly teaches?

I being a convert of 25 years, had to catch up on a lifetime of learning. Many books were studied, but the one that we have to go back to is the one that our faith is based upon, the bible. I know some resent the convert element because they exude with fervor for the faith. Maybe that fervor should be channelled into learning and living the faith, rather than an emotional attachment. How many of our faithful would be dumbstruck, if you were to qoute the scriptures? Many until they got home would be in doubt.

Yet I know that the Cathecism of the Catholic Church, along with many Orthodox Cathecetical materials constantly refer to scripture. That is so we can not only learn it, but hopefully live it. If we do that then we do not have to worry about the Protestants. They will be coming to us for all the right reasons, to live the fullness of the faith.

In other words it is time to get off our rearends, and get out there and do what the Great Commission calls for, and that is to preach the gospel to all nations, including ours.

Forgive me for my ramblings,
Father Anthony+

The funny thing is that many of us learn the basic and simple 101 from our Evangelical friends but when our Evangelical friends want to grow past that level into more spiritual and liturgical fullness, they come to the more advanced spirituality which only the Church offers.

So we both have something to offer the other!

Just some thoughts,
Alice

Dear Neil,

Thank you for your post about Billy Graham. It was interesting, informative, and incredibly eloquent. I am also a big fan of his, as I do not think that there is any one today who can rival the amount of people that he has made *think* about Christ and put Him into their daily lives, and that has taught the basic tenets of the New Testament relative to our world today, than him.

Surely he was called by Christ for this special purpose. There has never been anything, as you noted, heretical in anything he has ever said.

For the poster that asked if he derived anything from Orthodoxy after preaching in Russia, the answer is 'yes'. The Patriarch told him that everything he preached was on the button, but that he should mention the Resurrection of Christ more. Ever since then, the Rev. Graham has done just that, and has given credit to the Russian Orthodox Patriarch (name escapes me) that suggested he do that!

I also think that he is probably one of the most eloquent orators the world has known since perhaps St. Paul! An interesting tidbit is that he has said that he addresses the crowds as if everyone is in the seventh grade!

Interestingly, I just came across this article about him today on MSNBC..written by one of my favorite spiritual t.v. personalities (not that there are so many of them! LOL!)--Rabbi Marc Gelman of the 'God Squad'. He and a Catholic Monsignor, Father Tom, have a talk show here in New York. (Is that SOOO New York--a rabbi and a priest being best friends---or what???? )

I think that you will like the title:

A rabbi explains why Billy Graham is a giant among preachers.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8147174/site/newsweek/

As an Evangelical Christian who has been reading this forum for many months, reading much about the Eastern church and even experiencing Divine Liturgy on a number of occassions, I have to say that I agree that we are truly not so far apart. Before I encountered Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Christianity I truly believed that nowhere in the Catholic Church was true transformation of the soul by the power of the Holy Spirit taught. Our pastor preaches a principle you might call "exchanged life." The heart of this concept is that we are transformed from the inside out by the Holy Spirit and that we have new life in us because of Christ. We can argue about how this occurs, but if we both recognize that Christ lives in us and calls us to holiness, we are pretty much on the same page, imho.
Blessings
Michele

Michele,

As a Greek Catholic who has experienced the great ignorance and intolerance of fundamentalist Protestants in my youth, I thank you for your input, and may we all grow to love and share in those features of our faith that UNITE us. Since the passing of John Paul II, I have learned after many years that there are non-Catholics who do not indeed hate us.

May Our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus Christ help us all to love another!

stojgniev

Alice,

Thanks for the article; it was very interesting. I've heard the "God Squad" radio show on several occasions and have always found it interesting. It puts me in mind of a similar show that ran on Boston radio for many years with a wonderful interfaith panel whose names, unfortunately, now escape me.

Many years,

Neil

Thanyou Mexican for telling it like it is.

The more I think on your observation, the more I think it is profound.

--John

Father Anthony, bless! May we all take your words to heart - and actually live it out. And start with our own families, neighborhoods, and parishes.

Dear Ray:

It seems amazing that a man of faith would make very crude remarks about a ministry and person who has committed his life to Jesus Christ. ABT has sought to translate God's word for the Assyrians and Chaldeans so that they clearly read in their own language the true words. Ancient Peshitta vancular is no longer understood by the common man.

By the way, ABT is not supported by Moody Bible Institute. You should check your information before you enter into a conversation. You should also that ABT does not involve itself in world evangelizations. Its mission is to translate God's word and literature such as the Jesus Film.

If you are a Chaldean or Assyrian, then you would understand the value of our projects. Be very careful how you label people.

I think we have seen these 'we are translating the bible into various languages so the 'common'(that could have been put better) man sorts before. The only way the Chaldean Church can deal with that sort is to continually warn their people of what the deal is really all about with these Westernised missionaries with their westernised religion (usually heretical).

I happened to learn my lessons from Scripture in the Catholic Church.

I know that's doing it the hard way but by gum there were Catholics who taught me too. Old fogeys! Deaf. Half-blind. But Scripture they knew. Old and New. Whew! Who would have thunk it?



Eli

Joel Badal,

Are you an Evangelical Christian?

Do you not have a mission that converts Chaldean Christians into Evangelicals?\

BTW, I do appreciate you coming to this forum and stating your position.

Yours in Christ