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http://www.patronagechurch.com/Diaconate/Protodeaconess%20Sister%20Hrip\'sime%20Aghek\'-Tahireanc\'.gif

Photo of the Protodeaconess Sister Hrip'sime ghek'-Tahireanc' in her liturgical vestments

Jerusalem 19th century

Cool!!!!

...though a little scary (at least for me)

so, who is she?

what jurisdiction?

and why isn't her orar joined together in the front like the rubrics say?

and if there were women deacons
that that mean that to get to become deacon they would have had to have been "set aside"/"tonsure"/"blessed"/ordained to minor orders?

Herb

In my haste to visit some blogs I forgot to ask for pardon and forgiveness from all the wonderful and charitable women folk here at the forum for my stupid post yesterday, after evening prayers yesterday I received a stern rebuke...

May the holy Mother of God and all I offended yesterday please accept my apology and forgive my stupidness...

james

The Deaconess in the picture is of the Armenian Church. She is wearing the stole the way Armenian Deacons generally do. I believe the type of orarion that drapes around the body is reserved for protodeacons in the Armenian Church.

Dear Armenian Friends, please correct anything I have written here if it is incorrect.

~Manoli

Dear James - I was not offended - honest .

Frankly I can't imagine who would give you a stern rebuke - I certainly would not

Anhelyna

Manoli,

You are mostly correct. Typically on ordinary Sundays all our deacons wear the orar in the way the picture depicts. On festive days they all wear it (not just the protodeacon) wrapped on a diagonal across their body before it drapes over their shoulder (just like on Diak's avatar). Subdeacons always wear the orar simply drapped over the shoulder as we see the deaconess Hreepseemeh wearing here.

At least this is the custum in our parish, and we are very large parish usually in good keeping with proper liturgical practice. I'll double check on this and write back if I find its incorrect.

Thanks for your help.

Dear Pavel,

Yes, this picture is on the cover of a very good little work entitled "The Deaconess in the Armenian Church." This book cites all the leading Armenian studies on this question and affirms without a doubt that we have had deaconesses nearly all throughout our Church's existence. They were by far primarily monastic. And hence their need to be able to assist with the Mysteries where men were not available. The book also shows how our Fathers have strongly spoke about how uncanonical it is for a women to serve liturgically outside of their monastaries and to in any way act out the role of a male deacon. Hence my original questions.

Trusting in Christ's Light,
Wm. Ghazar Der-Ghazarian

Dear brother Hagop,

No need to apologize. I understand from where you are coming with all the feminist madness raging in the west. I have had to work very hard in my own mind to try and keep a healthy differentiation between the madness going on in the Latin Church (e.g. nuns demanding priestly ordination), and the true Orthodox balanced approach to this question. In so doing, I am attempting to keep these two things seperate so that I don't allow myself to have knee-jerked reactions to what might indeed be Orthodox and true. This is to prevent the proverbial throwing of the baby out with the bath water. I see by your last message you too are struggling to keep that balance. May God bless you for embracing that struggle.

Your brother in Christ's Light,
Ghazar

Perhaps I'm getting a little off topic, but I would like to offer a thought for us to consider with respect to "all the feminist madness raging in the west." In my opinion, much of the blame for this "feminist madness" falls on the shoulders of men (and I'm coming at this from the perspective that while not everything about feminism is wrong or bad, it certainly has those in its camp who seem to spew nothing but madness). However, the reason why I say that much of the blame for this madness falls on the shoulders of men is that feminism is, at least in part, a reaction (and in some cases, an over-reaction) to injustices perpetrated against women by men. I'm not suggesting that all men are guilty of mistreating women simply because they are women. Also, I'm not articulating an argument for ordination of women or for using women or girls as altar servers. I'm just trying to point out that, if it is indeed the case that many of the demands of Western feminism amount to "madness," men must share in the blame for the creation of this "madness." Perhaps this can help spur helpful discussion about the rightful role(s) of women in the Church.

Lesser Athanasius,

Thanks for stating what should be pretty obvious to all. Women feminists didn't get mad all by themselves. If men had treated women right, we probably wouldn't have half the mess we have today. This takes us back to my original question of why women are not allowed on the altar. I think some Orthodox are considering this question to see if there has been some wrong committed so that we can rectify it.

Your parish is one of the largest in North America, is it not? I looked at its website. The church building is magnificent. Too bad there were no interior shots.

~Manoli

Manoli,

You are correct. It is one of the largest. Our "Temple" (or Church building) in Detroit is actually only smaller in size to our St. Vartan Cathedral in NY. Still I think our Temple is more beautiful and in line with our Tradition than is the Cathedral. The interior is very beautiful and has recently added several very large mosaics of feasts and saints throughout the Church.

How is it that you are so familiar with Armenian Christianity? Is it b/c you are from California?

I've always been interested in Armenians and the Armenian Church. The interest goes so far back into my childhood, I can't remember what caused it. I often visit the Armenian Church where I live. The priest is very dynamic, and the congregation is most welcoming.

Do you have any photos of the interior of your church?

~Manoli