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Dear Reader Andrew,

Perhaps Stalin went to the same seminary as did Ivan the Terrible?

And there are those who would like to see both canonized!

But if anyone wants an akathist to either, sorry, I'm busy with others . . .

Alex

In mnay ways, the WCC is quite irrelvant as a pseudo-ecclesial body. Worship, etc. is something that is basicly the function of an individual person and then of the group to which he or she belongs; 'prayer-type' activities of the WCC inasmuch as they involve verbalizations, can't really get beyond anything except basic, core Unitarianism.

But, the great thing about the WCC is the fact that people are both talking with each other and also cooperating in making the world a better place through charitable works and offerings.

I get truly frightened when folks suggest that I shouldn't visit with and talk to "them" (whoever 'them' might be!).
It's hard to love your neighbors if you don't know who they are. (But I would prefer not to be asked to venerate your cow.) Mooooo.

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

Now that would be quite the tail . . .

Social action (now that I've got your full attention ) is always an important part of the Christian commitment to the world.

But I think Christians bring to such something more than the simplistic solutions of revolutionary Marxism, class struggle, or bleeding-heart social action committees.

If that is all the WCC and other bodies can do - why have Christianity?

Why not, as some Jesuits and others in Latin America have done, go and join Marxist guerrilla groups?

Christ is a true liberator in every which way, but He works, as you would be the first to tell us as well, through His Church, His people, His martyrs - in short through His Grace working in the flesh-and-blood daily situations of human conflict.

Christ is presented in a myriad ways today.

When someone tells me they speak for Christ, we should ask to see if their "Christ" has the nail marks of Calvary.

If not, it is not "Christ."

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr John:
[QB]In mnay ways, the WCC is quite irrelvant as a pseudo-ecclesial body.

The WCC's consistent self-definiton of its identity, nature, and purpose from the time of its foundation specifically denies the attempt to be an ecclesial (much less a "pseudo-ecclesial") body of any sort. To dismiss or condemn it as such is quite unjust.
(We Byzantine Catholics claim the right to define who we are and reject being portrayed as "wolves in sheep clothing intent on converting the Orthodox to Catholicism" as imputed by those who do not think well of us. So let us not define others by a definition they themselves reject.
It leads nowhere.)

I just know that the WCC does hold group sessions that are more intentionally "prayer-ful" than performances. Thus, if there's a group praying together, out loud, I call it: "churchy". And not "Hollywood Squares".

Blessings!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[QB]
But I think Christians bring to such something more than the simplistic solutions of revolutionary Marxism, class struggle, or bleeding-heart social action committees.

Alex,

I would certainly not put social action in the same group as Marxism or class struggle or characterize it as "Bleeding Heart" That is too often the words used by conservatives to deny that the Church has any social mission (not to say that you are this kind of conservative but just pointing out that these words are too often micharacterized and used as buzzwords) Yes, Christians cannot make their religion over into a complete "social Gospel" without the Cross but also, we must not fall into the trap of keeping to ourselves, our particular prayer rules etc and think that is all that is sufficient. We must all remember the examples of Mother Maria of Paris, Dorothy Day and so many others who were deeply rooted im their Faith and did not see this as excluding a radical love of people and of the poorest. Our Faith cannot become a complacent religion for Sundays.

Dear Comrade Brian

I didn't condemn social action as such, but "bleeding heart social action."

I too am involved in social action. As for my being a conservative, I don't know if I am.

Whatever the Church teaches is what I'm for. I want to "conserve" the Gospel and authentic Church teaching, free of modern "with it" trends. Does that make me a conservative?

I've helped build homes for the poor, marched in demonstrations, written letters to protest the detainment of human rights activists and some other things whenever my wife gives me permission

I don't like Christianity being tied to any sort of ideology. The situation winds up being one in which Christ is reduced to a member of a political party.

Christ, in and of Himself, is our all-sufficient "platform" of action.

Does that also make me a conservative?

Alex

Durak,

I am not completely disputing your explanation as to why the RCC is not a formal member of the WCC. However when I was a seminarian, our ecclesiology professor explained that the essence of the Roman Catholic Church's reluctance to officially join that body has much to do with Catholic ecclesiology. In many documents - especially most recently in Dominus Iesus - the RCC defintion of what constitutes a "Church" has made it necessary to distinguish between bona fide churches (such as the Eastern churches) and what the Holy See calls ecclesial communities. These groups, while possessing some measure of the Christain faith, are in the final analysis deemed deficient.

This is why cooperation with the WCC is permissable, but membership would compromise the Church's definition that the "Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church." The rationale is to avoid the notion of denominationalism. Of course, the Orthodox world is seen as sister churches and not in the same category of other Christian denominations. This line of thinking influences everything from inter-communion to recognition of other bodies' ministers and sacraments.

Granted, it is a fine-line example of making distinctions and nuance, but hey isn't that the Latin way? :p

PAX

Dear Brian,

We agree? So you'll remain in communion with Rome?

What do you think you are going to do with that giant censor?!

Careful with that - it still has burning coals in it!

BRIAN!!! OUCHHH!!

Alex

Alex,

"I didn't condemn social action as such, but "bleeding heart social action."

One would be naive in the extreme to believe that Liberation theology isn't simply Marxism with a few Christian sounding words thrown in. My complaint with that isn't so much the policies of nations that are still Marxists. My complaint is the same as yours. Liberation Theology and its spin offs are not essentially Christian.

Dan Lauffer

Dear Dan,

You da man, Dan!

Say something to Brian, will you? He tried to hit me . . .sniff . . .

Alex

Geez, it was only a hand censer!!!! Get over it!

Dear Brian,

O.K. Brian, I forgive you!

Your aim was off anyway!

Alex

Alex,
Glory to Jesus Christ!
We tell our new altar servers that a good deacon can flick the fly off the nose of a server with the censer. The eyes of the young men then become as wide as the ones on the icons.
Deacon El