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From my own experience...it seems that often (not always) those who promote and pray the Rosary are often agitators for doing it before the Divine Liturgy. In fact, no sooner was I ordained deacon than a couple individuals approahed me asking for my support in getting the Rosary said before Liturgy. I said I would, but on one condition, that they come early say the rosary and then the Third Hour and/or the Akathist or portion of it. Well, unfortunately they didn't like my condition and did not pursue the matter any further.

I have no problem with the Rosary as a private or group devotion. However, we have a duty to promote the Divine Office and Akathist first. Again in my experience Alex and others here that use the Rosary as part of balanced prayer life are an exception not the rule and this is unfortunate. Many who promote the Rosary, promote only it and are not interested in anything else and it provokes a reactionary response from those who rightly or wrongly think they are defending Eastern tradition.

One thing that always botherd me was in the older prayer books issued by both Rusyn and Ukrainian Greek Catholics the lack of Byzantinazation of the Rosary. In fact one old prayer book I have gives the Roman form of the Hail Mary and states this is the form to be used in reciting the Rosary, as if Godbearer Virgin were a second class prayer unsuitable for the Rosary. And before my latin brothers accuse of Byzantinizing a Latin devotion, I think that since the Latin Church has several different Rosaries and Chaplets to the Mother of God it would not be inappropriate to have a specifically Byzantine version utilizing our own prayers and replacing some of the Mysteries with Feasts proper to our Church. And in a way we already have this in St. Seraphim's rule, although I do not think he spoke on using the Mysteries.

I would agree with Alex. Whether or not use of the Rosary or the Rule of the Mother of God can be traced to whenever, the fact that St. Seraphim found it a suitable and effective prayer rule speaks volumes. If the Latin Church can promote the Rosary based on St. Dominic, historically or ficticously, certainly the Eastern Church can promote the Rule of the Mother of God based on the historically documented recommendations of St. Seraphim.


O Most Holy Mother of God, who accepts the prayers of all her children in any form, save us!

Fr. Deacon Lance

I totally agree. We do have a duty to promote the Divine Office and Akathist first. I am not willing to accept the rosary as a substitute. A Byzantine rosary would be fine as a private devotion. There's no reason it has to exactly follow the form of the Latin rosary.

This woman is awesome. I have heard her speak many times and her life is absolutely amazing. You may find other stuff on her, but here are some tapes I located: To Hell and Back: Divine Love and the Cross

Sometimes all of the learned works of theology and philosophy pale in comparison to the true-life stories of genuine Christian heroes and heroines.

In this series, a woman named Anne Marie Schmidt, today seemingly an ordinary housewife in Maine, recalls the horrifying events of her youth. Schmidt had the unlikely destiny of being a prisoner in both the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz and in the Russian salt mines of Siberia. She explains in this series how her Catholic Faith sustained her through unimaginable trials and led her to see, in the most unlikey of places, the hand of God working. In the midst of the most horrific trials, Schmidt saw more clearly than ever before that she was and is an adopted daughter of the Lord of Creation. This gave her the strength to see the humanity even of the brutal Nazi soldiers who killed her lifelong friends in her small Czech village. The Nazis came into her village, rounded up 25 villagers, and demanded that they renounce their Faith and accept Adolf Hitler as their only true saviour. When the villagers refused, they were taken out and shot. The next day, the soldiers came again, but this time they rounded up 50 villagers, again they insisted that they renounce their Faith, and, when the villagers refused, shot them all. The next day, the soldiers rounded up 75 villagers, and this time Anne Marie Schmidt was in the group. When the villagers refused to renounce the Faith, the Nazis shot again, but their bullets grazed Anne Marie. The soldiers decided to let her go, and she was spared. But there were far greater trials she had to face.

Anne Marie was eventually to be emprisoned at Aushwitz, and, when captured by the Red Army, shipped off to work in the salt mines of Siberia. When she was released in 1946, she was packed into a cattle car on a railroad and shipped overland to Germany. All of the prisoners in the cattle car caught cholera, and once again only Anne Maria and another woman survived. The military police were going to burn out the car, but the intervention of an American soldier saved her life.

After the war, in Nuremburg, Schmidt met another American soldier, they were married and in 1951 moved to the United States. In 1972, the couple moved to a small town in Maine, where they raised a family. After some years, Schmidt discovered the Charismatic Renewal movement, which reaffirmed her traditional Catholic Faith and strengthened her to tell the world her remarkable story. Don't miss this inspiring tape series and Anne Marie's story of Faith!

3 audio tapes here is the link
http://www.christianart.com.au/prod316.htm

This might help locate her if you like:
Her retreat ministry is based in
RI. Perhaps if you called the Diocese of Providence RI, they will know what you are talking about and give you the numbers of her Retreat Ministry. She lives way up in Maine. Likewise if you call the
Church in Maine, they might know what you are talking about and release her contact info.
For sure, if you call the Marist Retreat House in Framingham, MA, they will give you her contact numbers.

Charles;
You had indeed mentioned more than once that you have nothing against the rosary as a private devotion. I see your point fully, perhaps I should have just let the subject be.

Deacon Lance:
I think that a Byzantinized version of the Rosary would be a wonderful idea, and I think that the Godbearer Virgin prayer would of course be suitable to replace the Hail Mary, although I also see no problem in Eastern Christians praying the latin version as I, a Latin, pray a non - latinized version of the Chotki.
I was unaware that there was already a set liturgy for before Divine Liturgy, of course this should be followed and not other prayers.
I have finished the text, and I think it came out alright, I just have to dust it up a bit and have it bound and ready to give her tonight. Thank you all for your help!
God bless!
Filipe

Dear Father Deacon Lance,

Thank you for your comprehensive post on this subject!

There are indeed different Eastern forms for praying the Rule of the Theotokos (just as there were and are in the West - something Pope John Paul II recognized in his letter on the Rosary).

St Seraphim of Sarov, as we see from his rule given in the site above, used decades of Hail Mary's but no Our Father's as dividers.

Instead, he used the prayer: "Open to us the doors of Your Mercy, O Blessed Theotokos,that having placed our hope in You we should not be destroyed, but be saved from all troubles for You are the salvation of the Christian people!"

He ended each decade with a special invocation to the Theotokos for a particular grace or virtue.

His followers later added the Our Father as a divider between the decades (the Old Believers used it prior to this). And the above prayer was either added to the Our Father or else was used to end the decade (as discussed at some length in "Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint" chapter six).

St Seraphim Zvezdinsky (himself from a synodal Old Believer family "Yedinovertsy") devised a series of meditations on the life of the Theotokos beginning with her Nativity, Entrance into the Temple etc. His series omitted most of the Western sorrowful mysteries, save for the Theotokos standing at the foot of the Cross.

And he welded St Seraphim of Sarov's prayers for graces into his mysteries.

Zvezdinsky's series of meditations became very popular throughout Russia and Russian monasteries and the new encyclopedia of Orthodoxy I've mentioned lists them as events in the life of Christ and the Theotokos to pray the 15 decades with.

As you've written before, there is no limit to the mysteries we may use when praying the Rule.

St Tikhon of Zadonsky was himself, for example, devoted to a form of the Stations of the Cross - he only had life-size pictures of Christ carrying His Cross in his cell . . .

The rosary confraternities of the past, as we read about in the recusant literature, for example, had nine decades for the choirs of Angels, 12 decades for the Apostles, 15 decades for the Way of the Cross, 15 decades for the joys of the Mother of God, seven decades for the seven Sorrows of the Theotokos.

St Dmitri of Rostov devised the "Tale of the Five Prayers" that is popular in Orthodox prayerbooks today that is actually an old French devotion to the Joys and Sorrows of the MOther of God.

The rosary of Schrocken in the Vorarlberg Alps, likewise, had no Our Father's in it, but only 63 Hail Mary's with meditations in honour of the 63 years of the life of the Theotokos etc.

We are truly to affirm the primary place of liturgical prayer in our lives.

This, however, did not prevent some Orthodox holy Elders from saying the Hail Mary almost continually and some used it IN PLACE OF the Jesus Prayer - one such Elder was called the "Elder of the Theotokos."

This also did not prevent one Elder from saying that the Rule of the MOther of God is "Even more important" than her Akathist in procuring her blessing on our lives etc.

But the Rule is not to be prayed as a liturgical prayer in the East - that is simply not its function or place.

St Parthenius of the Kyiv Caves counselled his spiritual children to intertwine the Jesus Prayer with the Hail Mary.

Speaking for myself, I find the Rule of the Theotokos a tremendous way of prayer that makes the Divine Incarnation come ALIVE for me.

I use it to prepare for Holy Communion.

And when I receive Holy Communion, I say our Lady's "Magnificat" - everyone should try this and enter into the spirit of the Theotokos when she was greeted by St Elizabeth etc.!

To me it seems as though our Lord is coming into my soul where, thanks to the Rule, His Mother already awaits Him!

It is as if I have these two Heavenly Guests within me and I can't find the words with which to greet them adequately, as they have deigned to "come under my roof."

I just want to let them alone, undisturbed, so they can greet one another and speak to one another as I stand in knowledge of my unworthiness.

The Theotokos leads us to Her Son and Her Son is made more clear in faith to us through Her.

My Jesus Prayer has changed as a result and it goes: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, by the prayers of the Theotokos, have mercy on me a sinner (or on _____).

And I say the Hail Mary or Rejoice O Theotokos Virgin on the three divider beads and this prayer takes me from invoking the Virgin Mary to blessing the "Fruit of Your Womb, for You have given birth to Christ the Saviour, the Redeemer of our souls!"

The Old Believers punctuate their Jesus Prayer with the Hail Mary and they make the sign of the Cross on its final words!

I appreciate Charles and Deacon Lance explaining about the problem of those who want to impose the rosary in the Latin style - thankfully, we don't have that problem in my Eparchy, at least not in Toronto that I've ever seen or heard of.

This Rule is truly part of the spirituality of St Seraphim of Sarov!

He regularly conversed with the "Queen of Heaven" as he called her.

It was She who formed the special rule of prayer for the Diveyevo nuns and it was also She who confirmed to him the importance of the Rule of 150 "Rejoice O Theotokos-Virgin!"

She told him every Christian should recite it daily . . .

And it was She who referred to Seraphim as being "one of our own."

So there is no need for ANY imitation of Western Catholic ways in saying the rosary when we Orthodox and Eastern Catholics have our own ancient tradition with respect to the Rule of the Theotokos that has been confirmed by the lives and witness of holy Eastern Fathers like St Seraphim of Sarov, of Vyritsky and Seraphim Zvezdinsky.

Finally (yes, I'm coming to the end!) I wanted to say that I worked on a small project to help produce a film on the history of the Old Believers. My friend, an Old Believer himself, described to me the "Bogarodychnaya Lestovka" that Old Believers have, 150 small rungs divided every ten by a larger rung.

But they don't take this Lestovka to church, only the usual one.

And they recite the Theotokos Lestovka daily - it was always a popular Old Believer pious practice.

Alex

Alex,

You should have a weekly e-newsletter that people can sign up for. God has blessed you with a wonderful gift to share what you have learned. I am still benefitting from your wonderful article on the Immaculate Conception posted on Pontifications.

Thank you for your wonderful posts!

Your fan ... Michelle (a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic who privately prays the Jesus Prayer, the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy not to mention the many other lovely prayers/devotions from my Byzantine, Orthodox, and Roman Catholic books)

Alex,

I know the easy way for you to do it. Just go around to all the forums you have posted on, and the places that you have let them use your writings. Next collect them, bind them, send them to the editor, and whamo you have a book.

Now if you dont do it, who has all of the info stored in their head that you have gleamed from your family and otherwise learned over the years?

PLEASE PUT IT IN A BOOK!

Alex,
A book would be a wonderful idea.God has blessed you as a walking encyclopedia for a reason. All joking aside, you do have so much to offer and you appear to have been blessed with a particular devotion to The Mother of God.

I am still trying to find the Rule of the Mother of God rosary from start to finish. My Russian is quite poor because it is nonexistent!

Peace

Dear Indigo,

For the full text of St Seraphim's Rule in English, please go to this site:

www.montfortmissionaries.com [montfortmissionaries.com]

Then, on the left, click on "Share your Thoughts."

This will bring up a series of letters to the site.

Scroll down to my letter of "September 24, 2003" and there you will have the Rule in English.

Right now, they have a Byzantine icon up depicting St Louis de Montfort praying very much like St Seraphim of Sarov!

God bless,

Alex

Dear Michelle,

You mentioned the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and that brought back memories of my grandmother praying it daily at three o'clock!

I had no idea, at the time, why she prayed it exactly at that moment and I now, when I can, tune in to EWTN's Chaplet of Mercy at three in the afternoon - a very moving rendition and very intoxicating as one can easily become addicted to the main prayer (I find myself singing it to myself for the rest of the day, yes, even with the kind of voice I have!).

Certainly, the Divine Mercy Chaplet is very Eastern in style, especially with the Trisagion at the end.

In addition, Archimandrite Sophrony, when praying for others, used this form of the Jesus Prayer:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and on Thy whole world!

There is a wonderful Serbian tradition of praying the Jesus Prayer for others where one begins by praying it "have mercy on me a sinner and on (name the people one wishes to pray for)"

Then, for as many times as one wishes, one prays:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner and on Thy commemorated servants.

I find that to be a most practical way of praying for others - and it keeps the special pentitential feel in our hearts when we continue to refer to ourselves as "me a sinner."

God bless,

Alex

Dear Pani Rose,

May our Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ and His Most Holy Mother use all of us in deepening our faith and prayer and in spreading the word of the Gospel to others!

Alex

Alex,
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately my printer has gone haywire on me .

Peace

Alex,

Thought you might enjoy this from a Syriac site

Hail to the Blessed Virgin and Call for Her Help [ruhosuryoyo.org]

Many years,

Neil

Dear Brother Neil,

Absolutely Beautiful!!

Thank you, Sir!

Alex

Alex,

Found it by accident when I was looking for info on the Assyrian Orthodox/Miaphysite connection that you mentioned. I agree with you; the prayer is magnificent in its phrasing and the spiritual sense that it imparts or exudes or both.

From its placement on a list of prayer links on another page of the site, I suspect that it is intended to be chanted. I can't imagine how spectacularly beautiful it would be in that presentation.

Many years,

Neil