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I think the only ones who really makes these silly statements, are groups like the Nation of Islam, and left wing Europhobic academics.

Dear Timbot 2000 you said:

I say:

Actually, about fifteen years ago or so, I recall reading that the rings of trees in the South, showed that at the time of slavery, the climate was much hotter. It made such an impression, according to the article, that some people wanted to change the history books.

When I mentioned the painting of Dali with the black boy holding the ladies train, it was to show that slavery was undoubtably common during the Renaissance in Italy, or at least in Venice. That it exists in some parts in our modern era, is common knowledge, and if I recall correctly, a Saint in Greece of the late 19th century and early 20th century, paid money to keep a poor family from selling their child into slavery.

Slavery is sometimes caused by poverty, and it is preferred to hunger.

Zenovia

Aethiopia already had a church, iconography, music, liturgy, and monastic history when the Slavs were still worshipping trees. Unless Slavs were/are not white.

Zenovia

The Little Ice Age, which began around 1300, ended approximately around 1850. So actually that time period was cooler, though areas like the Southern United States were less effected. There's an excellent book on the topic by Brian Fagan, that you can probably find in a local library.

Let us not forget, during this discussion, that slavery is not something of the past. It still exists and in some parts of the world affects mainly christians, such as in Sudan.
Our prayers are needed!

Dear Michael Thoma you said:

I say:

Years ago it was assumed that the ancient Greeks were pure Arians...especially by the Germans. They even equated themselves as being the true descendants of the Greeks, at a time when Darwins theory was in full swing. It seems that the further one's features resembled the apes, the more advanced they are supposed to be intellectually...so I remember my mother telling me that if a child had a protruding forehead, it would be bright.

Now going a little further than that, the first comics of superman had him with a very receding jaw...sort of resembling the Greeks and Romans. In other words, the furthest from the apes. :rolleyes:

Well because of the Nazi belief in a superior race, a study was made, and exists in a book I came across by the Smithsonian called the 'People of Lerna'. The bones that they had found in the town of Lerna, Greece, proved that the first people living there were Mediterrean types. The next group coming into the land were Central Europeans with round heads, and the third were a 'Nordic' type with long heads. On a whole, it was found that the people of ancient Greece were basically the same as they are today.

Now that's what was known at the time. Today the anthropologists might be a little more exact...I don't know. What I do know is that Herodotus the Greek historian said that on the island of Chios, (my mother's island), the 'races', (tribes and languages), were so numerous, that he couldn't even mention them. Now that was before the Arabs, Franks, Venetians, and Genovese came.

Actually the whole Middle East is mixed, otherwise why are the people so good looking ...especially the Arabs? As my grandaughter said when visiting a college in Washington DC, "why do all the good looking boys have to be Muslims."

Zenovia

Dear Filipe you said:

I say:

It exists in many parts of the world, but the only way to eradicate it is to eradicate poverty. I can't help but recall the horror of some at child labor, yet these same people never asked where these children would find food to eat if they didn't work.

The worse is child prostitution. I remember driving along the lower West side of New York City and seeing children, probably no older than thirteen, selling their bodies. From then on I gave to Covenant House. Unfortunately my funds are highly limited, and whatever is occurring today in this country is miniscule to what is going on in the rest of the world.

In Thailand people are selling their children into prostitution, and after the Sunami, the nurses in hospitals were hiding infants so as not to be stolen...and I dare not mention what for. One has but to use their imagination.

Prayers for conversion of hearts to our Lord Jesus, is definitely needed. It matters not whether that conversion will be to an Evangelical, Catholic or Orthodox...and I think it's time we started looking at all the good these missionaries are doing throughout the world, and stop condemning one another.

Zenovia

LOL ! So true . . .

Beyond the question of when peoples became Christian, what about the numbers ? There are over two BILLION (2,000,000,000) Christians in the world today. That is over 1 /3 of humanity. And most of them are people of color: from Africa, Asia, Latin America and Polynesia. See http://www.zpub.com/un/pope/relig.html ; the data is about 11 years old, but the gist is still true: Christianity is practiced around the world and by all races of people.

-- John

That could be a little stereotypical as not all American blacks like to sing and dance during praise.

Bishop Joseph Nathaniel Perry [nbccongress.org] occasionally celebrates the Tridentine Mass at St. John Cantius in Chicago and he gives one heck of a homily. We need more like him. I hope he gets appointed Cardinal one day.
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Blacks don't work better in the heat than do whites; that is a common misconception.

I also find it interesting (or rather, I find the opposing view interesting because I don't agree with it) that sub-Saharan blacks who are Muslims don't have an Islamic version of clapping and singing and speaking in tongues like a bunch of hooligans. That kind of thing is not intrinstic to being black or being a black Christian, though the tradition is prevalent among many blacks here in the States.

I'm not opposed to all inculturation, and it can do some good, but there should be a limit, ISTM, and this limit looks like it gets crossed a lot in black Catholic parishes. Yes, we Europeans inculturated some practices into Christianity when our ancestors adopted the Faith, but only to a certain extent in liturgical celebration.

People of European cultures centuries ago, be they Irish or Greek, Danish or Italian, also had a quite colorful religious patrimony that included dancing, Druid rituals, etc. etc...basically, actin' like hooligans. But those things were only allowed to make small inroads in our worship. You don't see Irish Catholics' liturgical patrimony including dancing around the altar in Druid-like fashions (well, you shouldn't anyway). I feel like the Mass should be especially guarded from this type of thing.

Lastly, overall I do find it a little racist, even if unintentional, to suggest that there is something intrinsic in the black consciousness or genetics that make them somehow more charismatic or more naturally prone to these types of things. It is purely cultural and can be controlled.

Logos Teen

Well,

There is the polka Mass, Kilt Mass, fill-in-the-blank Mass, etc nowadays...

In the post-Vatican II chaos, there were a number of demands for a "Black Rite" in the USA. There was at least one substantial schismatic parish established to propagate this "Black Rite", though I've heard nothing of it for a couple of decades now.

However, there are Ethiopian Orthodox and Ethiopian Catholic parishes in the USA; if there is still an interest in the African-American communities these parishes would probably make African-Americans welcome.

The Coptic Orthodox are increasingly successful at evangelizing in sub-Saharan Africa.

All of this begs the question of just what a "white race" might be - attempts at such a definition vary widely (and wildly) from one racist to the next. For that matter, this also begs the question of what is meant by a "black race" - a colleague from the US who is more interested than I am in being "politically correct" once referred to a certain African-American Bishop (a Roman Catholic) as being "about as black as I am". Since the good Bishop was indeed "black" in the usual understanding (skin pigmentation and a few other physical characteristics), I asked my colleague what on earth he meant - and it turned out that he was speaking purely in cultural terms, which only points out the nonsense of the racist ideology. Malcolm X was more consistent.

Fr. Serge

Brothers and Sisters,

I'm becoming concerned that we are focusing more on the concept of "race" than on the question raised by the OP. For the record, there is only one race -- the human race. All the rest is an artifical construct made to divide.

If the research into the RNA of people all over the world is correct (and it appears to be) we all come from a single woman who lived in Africa. Skin pigmentation is a way that the body regulates the natural production of vitamin D based upon sun exposure. The more sun, the darker the pigmentation. This is simply the way God designed us to work.

Culture, on the other hand, is what this thread is really about. Let's try to avoid any semblance of racism and stick with the topic at hand.

Fr. Deacon Edward,
Moderator

AMEN to Fr. Deacon Ed's statement!

I agree. The statements that I have shared only related to the culture and we as an Eastern Church should understand that more than most. It is often times the preservation of our culture in our Churches that draw people to us. The worship of the Divine Liturgy - though it is the same - varies depending on the culture and language of the people.

My husband and I have been blessed to share and experience these cultures, not only in the East but working with many ethnic Churches in the West.

My experiences that I shared in this thread, though minor, have been said only in love. I am so amazed at the beauty of these different cultures. God is so awesome in the way he created us, and he loves each of us the same.