www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Icon Veneration: BCC vs OCA

When attending the Holy Liturgy, what is considered proper veneration of icons? At OCA churches, upon approaching the icons, most everyone makes the sign of the cross, does a half prostration, and kisses the icons; however in Byzantine Catholic churches, most everyone seems to ignore the icons. What's going on here?

At my local UGCC parish as well as the local BCC parish, the icons are always venerated by everyone. Don

How do you define veneration?

Slava Isusu Christu!

At OCA Churches I usually see the faithful give two metanias, then kiss the ikon, then another metania. In Alaska I have seen OCA Churches do bows from the waist or semi-prostrations; Convert Antiochian parishes are big on the prostrations.

All Byzantine Churches I have been to just make the small bow or metania the same as was mentioned above for the OCA. I have seen people in many Greek Churches make Genuflections instead of going to the Tetrapod! So their are mixed practices everywhere.

I would like to see more veneration of icons here at my local UGCC parish. Many people as Robert said above just come in and genuflect when entering their pew.

Also the appropriateness of standing rather than kneeling on Sundays and between Easter and Pentecost has not been stressed so very few people do it.

Stefan-Ivan

This is all very good, but we must take care that the veneration of the icons happens at an appropriate time. Worshippers should gather before the service begins and should then venerate the icons. They should venerate the icons placed for veneration and not wonder about at will. They should not wander over the clirosy and solea as many Greeks seem to. This area is set aside and nobody should enter it unless they have a ligitimate reason.

Spasi Khristos -
mark, mok and sinner.

What is the clirosy and solea?

Robert Horvath<< I have seen people in many Greek Churches make Genuflections instead of going to the Tetrapod!>>

I have never seen a tetrapod (unless you are referring to the movable Memorial Table, which may or may not have an icon) in a Greek Orthodox church, and I've been in many. If anything, they have an icon for veneration in the narthex, and if they have more icons for veneration, they are usually on analogia near the rear of the church near the entrance. I have never seen people in Greek churches make genuflections either.

OrthodoxEast

Dear Orthodox East,

You are correct. Most in the Greek church do not do a 'metania'(I assume that is what you mean by genuflection), EVER!! HOWEVER, traditionalism, with the encouragement of traditionalist priests, is coming back, fortunately, in *some* parishes, and we are seeing more and more metanies, before icons, and before taking Holy Communion. (Yet, even in Greece, I have rarely seen metanies done upon entering a church to kiss the icons). The more ethnically Greek a church community in the U.S., the more chance of seeing a metania here and there. The past thirty-five years has been a period, in the United States of adopting Western customs. I don't think that this will ever change. Former Archbishop Spyridon (embattled and then ousted) decried pews, organ choirs, no tetrapods, etc., in the first months of his tenure, and there was an outcry from the laity in East to West, which amongst other things, eventually did this honorable hierarch in.

In Christ,
Alice

Hmm,

I'm echoing Andy here

From Fr Mark << They should not wander over the clirosy and solea as many Greeks seem to.>>

Please would someone explain what the clirosy actually is - yes solea is in my vocabulary.

Inquiring Latin would love to know

Anhelyna

Perhaps the reference was to a Krylos? If so, the Krylos is an area immediately in front of the right side of the inconostasis wherein the cantors are to stand during services when leading the singing. Unfortunately, many parishes now use the front pew as a makeshift krylos because they do not have one. Hope this helps.

Yours,

kl

In Byzantine churches traditionally the kleros was on either side of the solea to facilitate antiphonal singing between right and left sides of the church. The diaky (cantors) of each side stood there with their analoy (readers/cantor's stands). In some churches you can find men on one side (side of icon of Christ), women on the other (side of icon of Theotokos).

Some monasteries, both Eastern and Western, still have vestiges of this practice manifested in right and left monastic "choirs".

Thanks Krylos Leader and Diak,

Your explanations made sense

As a point of interest when we say Lauds before Mass each morning, we do have a leader for each side - yes we do say Lauds as in Choir.

I have a feeling that when this posted is spotted I am going to be told off for not checking my "Lexicon" - but
1) I have just found where it had hidden itself
and
2) it has a different spelling but the entry is not complete so I am vindicated

Most grateful

Anhelyna

Getting back to the difference between OCA and Byzantine Catholic parishes, I've noticed that the OCA peforms metanies by making the sign of the cross, followed by the bow to the floor, while the Byzantine Catholics bow to the floor and conclude with the sign of the cross.

Does anyone have an explanation for this phenomenon?

-- Ed, sinner