www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Contemporary Orthodox Deaconesses?

I've been told that the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate ordains women to the diaconate. Is this true?

Dear Marshall,

Actually, it consecrates women to the ancient Order of Deaconess which is not the same as the liturgical, sacramental Order of Deacon.

The EP has a special school where deaconesses are trained.

Alex

My understanding is their main function was the catechizing and initiation of women, it being obviously more appropriate for a woman to assist another woman at a full immersion baptism.

With primarily infant baptism today, I am not sure what that ministry would entail.

Very interesting! Where is this school and what is it called?

Dear Tony,

There was an article in an Orthodox journal on display of the St Michael's University reading room.

I'll try and locate it next week when I return to work.

Alex

Alex,

Thank you, I will be awaiting it. This is of particular interest to me.

Tony

Some short quotes, mostly from EP sources, relating to this at http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=148136/
and more at
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/deaconess/index.html

The begining of the fall of Orthodoxy! :rolleyes:
Stephanos I

I am not sure if those quotes can be considered EP sources, as Orthodox Christian Laity is fairly suspect...it has, shall we say, an agenda.

Gaudior, who disapproves utterly of restoring the order of deaconnesses for the sake of a title...most of the duties seem to be very well undertaken by the ladies of the various parishes...now, there are charitable organizations attached to each church that perform these functions, and women teach Sunday School in nearly every Church...so, really, all that remains is bringing Holy Communion to the shut-ins of a community...something that in most cases, the priests can handle quite well, as there are either not that many, or they are conveniently grouped in one or two nursing homes.

There are many other considerations, though, among them the age limitation, and the reason for it. ISTM that that would need to be increased, in these days of longer life.

I am interested in this, and, frankly, disapproving of anything other than a historical ressurection of the deaconessses original function...the parts that cannot be fulfilled without orders. Anything else seems scrambling for titles and "equality" with the men in orders, and, in that case, would rather seem that the women in question seeking ordination in order to be "equal" need to receive teaching, rather than provide it.

Gaudior, retiring grumpily from this discussion

Thank you Gaudior for clearing that up for me!

Your sister in Christ,
Alice

Gaudior, good points. Certainly it seems there are those who have an agenda. But the words of the EP at the Rhodes consultation are documented in not only mentioning the historical reality but the consideration of the restoration of deaconesses.

The whole question has to be balanced with good scholarship. Right now, I am not sure anyone really understands historically what that role was, as it has been out of use for so long. The extant texts are not always consistent in their descriptions.

The churches need to be aware of false romanticism or archaic notions of restoring something so long out of use and the praxis essentially lost. Restoration of any lost practice will always involve some aspect that is invented or contrived, as the continuity and relevance of any such practice in Church life have themselves been lost.

Just fleshing out that consensus of what that historical role was to the comfort of the hierarchs will be extremely difficult. This could also in the longer run cause more division between Orthodox churches who restore and those who refuse.

Currently in both the Greek Catholic and Roman Catholic churches, it is out of the question according to the existing particular laws.

It could also complicate ecumenical dialogue between the churches restoring the deaconesses and the Catholic Church, as this Pope has made it very clear as have the hierarchy that no ordination of women to any orders is possible. Most of the Episcopalian priests I know of who left to come to the RC church [as married clergy] came because of the ordination of women in the Episcopalian church.

Dear Friends,

Actually, the stuff on the deaconesses will have to wait.

My situation has changed somewhat dramatically and I am undertaking preparation to be a principal at a school (I'm so happy ).

So I remove myself from this discussion as of right here and now and turn to what I have to do right now!

Alex

Dear Friends,

O.K., I spoke in haste . . .

When I get a chance I will go to the university library and try to look up that reference on the Orthodox Deaconesses . . .

I'm sure that between starting a new legislative job and working on becoming a principal of a new school I can find the time to do that.

If I don't, someone else may have to try and find it . . .

Alex

oh, this is what I was looking for

-apologies to all for the duplicate posting, I also put this in the thread on altar girls

Article on deaconesses in Coptic Church

The Third Way [weekly.ahram.org.eg]

Also, just saw a reference elsewhere to a book, "Women Deacons in the Orthodox Church" by Kyriaki Karidoyanes FitzGerald, published by Holy Cross GO Press.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Brother Neil,

Thank you for that information!

And did you notice the "Latin-looking" picture of the Virgin Mary on the Coptic page?

When our Studite priests travelled to Egypt to study the apparitions of our Lady at Zeitoun, they came across an artist who did a painting based on eye-witness accounts concerning how the Mother of God looked as she appeared above the Church in Cairo.

THAT was exactly how she appeared!

Alex