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I recently learned that our parish priest had given a couple permission to be sterilized (vasectomy) because of considerable health problems the wife is having (the couple told me that's how I know this). This caused me to ask him about this as I thought sterilization had always been taught to be a sin. He basically told me that, yes, the tradition had taught that mutilation of the body was a sin but that all surgery could in some sense be mutililation so he didn't see a problem.

Now to be fair I would say our priest is very good in several ways but a theologian he is not.

But I'm not here to bash our priest. His answer prompted me to make this post and inquire what Eastern Catholics teach on this. Although, of course, Latin Catholics may reply, I am already aware of what the Roman church teaches on this.

Thanks,

Eric (Orthodox)

Dear Eric,

I believe that unnecessary sterilization, like contraception, is a contradiction of all historic Christian tradition, whether it be of East or West. The question would be whether it was necessary or just arbitrary?

In Christ's Light,

Ghazar

Dear Eric,

Your priest told me that sterilization for contraceptive purposes is a sin so I doubt that he was the one making the comment that "all surgery in a sense is a mutilation." There must have been something "lost in the communication."

I talked to Fr. "X" about contraception and he basically repeated verbatim what Bp Kallistos said in his newer edition of the book "The Orthodox Church"

I'll attempt to move this now away from the person of your priest (whom I greatly respect and with whom I am in frequent contact) and more to the issue per se.

I think all contraception is evil, I don't practice any of it with my wife, I know the rudiments of NFP but am more apt to just let God do what God wants. However, not all people have as much trust in God. If a life-threatening medical illness could result from pregnancy, there is, I believe, moral reason to not have another child; but sterilization to me is "overkill." NFP is scientifically accurate and still allows for transmission of life if God so wills (doctors have been wrong about those "lifethreatening pregnancies" before!--why does it seem to me from women I've spoken with that doctors nowadays at the slightest hint of trouble immediately suggest "abortion!"--do they get a cut of the profit or something??)

Sorry to ramble,

In Christ,

anastasios

(PS Eric I am in NC right now, maybe I will see you because I am thinking of visiting your Church for Vespers soon).

Eric, what is your church called?

ChristTeen287

ChristTeen,

I attend an Eastern Orthodox parish. I'd prefer not to say which one as it's not my purpose here to take issue with our priest. Obviously, if I say where I go to church then someone could figure out who our priest is.

Thanks,

Eric

Thanks Eric, I was hoping you wouldn't answer that. To be honest, I wished you would have worded your original question a bit differently...such as saying "a priest I know"...rather than identifying it as your parish priest. I would hate for someone to cause trouble between you and your priest. As for your question...I would be willing to give both your priest and the couple the benefit of the doubt. We cannot know and have no business knowing all of the details. It is between their spiritual father and them. Don

Don wrote:
Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned that I know of an actual couple and left it in the abstract. I have no interest in what *this* couple will do or even what *this* priest says per se. I'd like to try this over and ask this question instead of my original question:

It seems that Eastern Orthodoxy may be fuzzy currently on the issue of sterilization. In previous times [I think] it was forbidden and was a sin. Currently (as with contraception) Orthodoxy's view on sterilization seems to be a bit situational. What I mean is that it seems to depend on why you want to be sterilized. And it depends on who *your* spiritual father is as to whether he will say it's OK or not. Within Orthodoxy (and within Eastern Catholicism?) there seems to be this concept that each spiritual father is a mini-Pope unto himself when it comes to giving answers to questions.

I have a difficulty with this approach, though. I certainly understand that any spiritual father may impose different disciplinary decisions upon his children. And I realize that when it comes to undefined areas that any spiritual father can only do the best he can when rendering a decision.

But I was under the impression that sterlization (as with contraception?) has always been treated as a moral issue per se and is not a disciplinary decision. Does Eastern Catholicism view it this way? What does Eastern Catholicism have to say about sterlilization? Does it hold the same stance that the RC's do - i.e. that it's objectively sinful in itself? Or do you see it like the RC's see killing -- i.e., that there are legitimate reasons and illegitimate reasons for doing it [self-defense, etc.]

Again, I have no interest in this particular couple and it was inappropriate for me to word my question that way. It's true that a couple I know telling me they were going to be sterilized is the thing that prompted me to wonder about this but it's not my concern to condemn them or approve them.

There was a long discussion on birth-control a few months back here on the Forum:

https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001383#000000

It was a long discussion and we all learned a few things...I know I had to adjust my understanding of Orthodox belief and practice on this. It's my understanding that the subject of sterilization (for the purpose of preventing childbirth) would be viewed the same as artificial birth control.

I think the quote given there from Bishop John states the official Eastern Catholic view (one that I personally agree with). Having said that, I don't pretend to have all the answers for every situation, however.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

The questions of birth control, etc. is a teaching of the entire Catholic Communion and is not unique to one specific Church, like the Roman one.

Sacred Tradition and the Fathers support the Catholic position on this matter.

ChristTeen287

It is interesting that an organization that has a "just war" theory doesn't have a "just contraception" theory.

One can justify killing and war, but not reliably preventing contraception. I do like Alex's comments on the other thread. Maybe I should be called "oops" and my sister should be called "oops again". Once my parents realized that they were extremely fertile, but just didn't have "rhythm" (the curse of being caucasian), they found more reliable methods--as did all my other RC relatives--those in the 80%.

If said "organization" regarded a nascent child solely as an invader who seizes lives and material assets, and who constrains the liberty of its victims, then it might indeed be inclined to offer a "just contraception" theory.

Actually, there are no shortage of people who do subscribe to this view.

It is often assumed in these discussions that Orthodoxy no longer holds the traditional view against artificial birth control. This may be true to a certain extent but there are voices within Orthodoxy for the traditional view, for example, see The Stephanos Project (by a priest of the OCA):

http://www.paratheke.net/stephanos/

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Which may mean that God intended for other "oopses" to be in your family but who didn't have the chance (perhaps not of course, my point being that contraceptors never know if they are doing God's will); aren't you glad your parents "messed up" for you?

Of course, natural family planning as opposed to the "rhythm" method is close to 99% effective (if used correctly!)

In Christ,

anastasios

I wish the Stephanos Project all success and pray that the Orthodox Churches reach the unaminous decision of banning any and all contraceptive devices.

CHRISTteen287

Actually, since vasectomies are not always 100% effective (and note too how easily they can be reversed), one could argue that technically conception is theoretically possible even after the procedure. Personally, I think that the stand of Orthodoxy is very wise...not all situations are the same and anything that does not harm the fetus, zygote or whatever you want to call that little person after conception may be permitted under certain circumstances...and those circumstances are best left to the couple and their spiritual father...not with theologians, whether of the professional or armchair variety. Don