www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Consubstantiation - a belief in some Eastern Orthodox Churches? Can't be.

I was reading this quotation in another forum and I wonder if the person who wrote this is totally confused.

[indent]Consubstantiation is held by some Eastern Orthodox churches, and some other liturgical Christian denominations (Episcopal and Lutheran as examples). Even amongst these groups, consubstantiation is not universally accepted.
http://www.gotquestions.org/consubstantiation.html
[/indent]

If the moderators find this topic irritating, then please do close this thread, but send me a PM on your findings, because I honestly feel that the above website is seriously in error and needs to be contacted.

BTW: how does one indent to show a quotation. I tried using [indent][/indent] but that doesn't work here.

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If you consult Protestant fundamentalist websites you will get their interpretation of the world, God etc. If you want to know what Orthodox Christians believe search their websites, they have enough of them. These people are as you point out confused with their facts.

The short answer is the Orthodox and Catholic Churches do not believe in consubstantiation, their beliefs are the same on the Eucharist in Transubstantiation.

As I understand it the Lutherans do believe in Consubstantiation I dont believe that the official position of the Anglican communion is even close to that.

ICXC
NIKA

Some earlier threads on the subject - which are unlikely to resolve your question:

https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002602#000010
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001952#000001
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000236#000000

I take as authoratitive in this matter the 1672 extraordinary Synod of Jerusalem's teaching on the Eucharist. The Orthodox Church had ample encounters with the first Lutheran and Calvinist reformers--one Patriarch of Constantinople was even suspected of leanings towards the latter-- and they rejected everything they ever came into contact with.

I used to go to a monthly meeting in Melbourne called the Orthodox Church Fraternal where the different Orthodox clergy would meet and there were topics discussed. It later had to change it's name to Eastern Chrurch Fraternal as the Greeks somewhere objected to it being called "Orthodox" as the Copts, Syrians and a Mar Thoma priest were also attending.

One evening the Mar Thoma Priest corrected one of the other priests form saying Transubstantiation was the Orthodox Eucharistic belief and that it should have been consubstantiation. Well did the room come alive in an instant, with the cries of "transubstantiation" from all corners of the room.

I had suspected the Mar Thoma priest of being part of a Protestant Church in India that kept the externals of the West Syrian rite but had in fact gone Anglican. I had asked him a few times to tell me who he was in communion with and he could never answer the question, always had to offer to give me brochures. All I wanted to know was he with the Syrians or the Malankara Orthodox but it seemed after a while he was with neither of them.

ICXC
NIKA

Thanks very much for these references. Father Kyrill had some very interesting things to say.

Interesting. I recall recently reading an old article by an Orthodox theologian..in the sense of his adherence rather than doctrine. I can't remeber the name..I think Lossky, but I'm not %100. It was an old article though. Anyway, he specifically repudiated that the Orhtodox Church held the same views of transubstantiation as the Roman Church. No more info. Any ideas?

N

I believe that Orthodoxy lacks hierarchy and authority. No Oecumenical Councils and no Pope to point out what's right and what's wrong... Right now, they can't agree on the name of the orthodox church... Some say orthodox, others orthodox catholic, others catholic, others one,holy,catholic,apostolic and orthodox etc.

I've met priests of orthodoxy that accept the papal primacy and others that don't even agree on a primacy of honour.

By the way, the news of consubstantiation in the OC are not suprising to me. I have heard about it some while ago... Orthodoxy is something like protestants with tradition and apostolic sucession... :p

I am getting sick and tired of reading insulting things directed at Orthodox Christians on this site.

Andrew

Will this help any?

After the fact when I had posted it, it did seem a rather Roman explanation, but Fr. Anthony tried to balance it out coming from the Orthodox with the wrtitings on it.
https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000266#000000

Dear Friends,

BOTH Consubstantiation AND Transubstantiation are acceptable to Lutherans!

There is now full communion between Anglicanism and Lutheranism as well.

Andrew Rubis is the Orthodox Christian here who has defended the viability of his view of a "Consubstantiation" as being perfectly Orthodox.

Perhaps he could revisit this and tell us WHAT the consubstantiation that he believes in really is and whether it is the same view as that of the Lutherans (?).

Alex

Armando,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

You should really learn a little bit about Eastern Orthodoxy before you trash it. If you did, you would know Eastern Orthodox do NOT believe in consubstantiation. Their belief in the Eucharist is the same that Catholics hold.

By the way, Protestantism is, as Bishop Kallistos Ware puts it, "the egg laid by the Roman Catholic Church"... the direct result of the Latin Church's overdeveloped theology. Roman Catholicism, especially today, resembles Protestantism much more closely than Orthodoxy does.

There are schismatic "Orthodox" communities just as there are schismatic "Catholic" ones.

Karen

I am sorry but this is an Eastern CATHOLIC website. Please take time to check out other orthodox websites to find out that whenever they mention the Catholic Church they are being insulting.

Yours in Christ,
Armando.