www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Consubstantiation - a belief in some Eastern Orthodox Churches? Can't be.

If I am not mistaken, Armando is a young man who has recently converted to Roman Catholicism.

*************************************************

Armando, just because you converted from one faith tradition to another, you do not need to 'hate' and turn your back on the other because the 'other' (in this case, Orthodoxy) is what formed your soul and brought you to the spiritual place you are today...the same goes for all those converts to Orthodoxy that you encounter who have left Catholicism or Protestantism and now "trash" their old faiths.

In a convert's zeal, something cutely called 'convertitis' takes over, and the new convert feels that he must tell and convince the world how everything he believes is right and all else is wrong. *wink* I hope that isn't what you have?!?!

Sincerely in Christ,
Alice

You're right, and it appears I have overstayed my welcome.

My apologies.

Andrew

Armando,

Yes, this is an Eastern Catholic message board... but Eastern Catholics regard themselves as spiritual children of the Orthodox Church. Someone here once describes EC's as the children of divorced parents-- the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches. And we don't take kindly to having either of our "parents" badmouthed. As you no doubt know, being treated uncharitably does not give us license to be uncharitable back (this is something I have to tell myself constantly!).

Unfortunately, we're not understood by many Latin Rite Catholics, and we're spurned and hated by many Orthodox, so we're sort of "caught in the middle" so to speak. Being a BC can be very lonely... this message board is such a blessing because it allows us to fraternize and discuss our faith with other Byzantines online who love their faith.

The Church, as our former Holy Father has said, must breathe with both lungs-- its Western one and its Eastern one. Now, my own opinion is, the western one is pretty diseased, and we need strong Roman Catholics like you to save it. Maybe that's why God called you to become RC.

God bless,

Karen

Nothing to apologise for Andrew. It was no way to discuss any topic. Your contributions have been most interesting and I hope to see more of them.

Pavel

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Andrew,

Ditto to what Pavel said. Please don't allow anyone to "run you off." I've enjoyed your posts.

Karen

Dear Andrew,

I also hope that you will not leave.

You are a most valued and interesting poster and-- more importantly-- friend, of this board.

Please read my p.m. to you.

With much love in Christ Jesus,
Alice, Moderator

Seems we are all writing PMs today.

Amando will have to learn to be more respectful in his dealings with other posters.

Pavel

Dear Armando,

Perhaps you could pm Deacon El Pekarik about your concerns?

This is an Eastern CHRISTIAN forum in the first instance, as the Administrator has defined it.

It is a place where all Eastern Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, Oriental, Assyrian - am I missing anyone - can speak about Eastern Christian concerns.

And we also give a begrudging welcome to Catholics and Protestants who are interested in discussing Eastern Christianity too!

What is NOT allowed is for RC's to tell EC's about THEIR RC standards about what being a "real Catholic" is all about.

What is NOT allowed is for others to be mean to any Eastern Christian or to be deprecating in any way.

What SHOULD NOT be allowed is for converts to run riot . . .

I feel that as you have given offense to our forum brother, Andrew, you should apologise.

Andrew is a valued member of this Forum community as are ALL our Orthodox brothers and sisters, especially Alice ( ).

So, please apologise, learn to behave and until you decide to do that, you can go to El.

Alex

Dear Armando,

Our fellow posters are quite correct.

First, always keep in mind the teachings of Pope John Paul the Great; that the communion between Catholicism and Orthodoxy is so profound that all that is lacking is communion itself. The Holy Father�s statement does not dismiss the issues that keep the two Churches from full communion (like the issue of papal authority). But it does accurately reflect that what we together hold in common is almost everything.

Second, The Byzantine Forum is an Eastern Christian website. All participate here as equals. Any Christian may give the viewpoint of his particular Church (or even denomination) and, so long as it is presented with charity, that view will be respected. If we, as Catholics, accept the teaching of the Holy Father then it cannot be otherwise.

Yes, I do understand that there are message boards where the Orthodox regularly insult the Catholic Church. There are also message boards where Catholics insult the Orthodox Church. How they choose to behave on those websites does not justify anyone participating here from posting with anything less then the charity demanded by the Lord. If you feel that you cannot follow this rule of charity I must ask you not to post on this Forum again.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

You are so wonderful that you are quite overwhelming sometimes, did you know that?

Alex

I agree that our Administrator is quite wise, intelligent, fair, objective and charitable.

He is, to put it simply: 'THE BEST'!

My point definetely was not that we can insult EO. It was that if anyone thinks that this is insulting than he could check out other websites and find out that this board is nothing close to insulting.

We REALLY need a greek board cause my use of English somehow provokes misundestandings. Also, I do not hate Orthodoxy... You must realise that by returning in union with Rome, the Eastern Catholics agreed that it was eastern orthodoxy that left the Church and not visa versa.

So by saying that EO are schismatics should be nothing close to provoking for EC. Now, if it provokes Eastern Orthodoxy, that is another thing. I agree with that and I apologise for that.

Also... It is not my fault that people that know nothing of orthodoxy, teach greek orthodoxy at greek schools and claim that the doctrine of consubstantiation is accepted by the orthodox communion.

Armando,

Thank you for your post. I must offer a few clarifications.

You wrote:
My point definetely was not that we can insult EO. It was that if anyone thinks that this is insulting than he could check out other websites and find out that this board is nothing close to insulting.

What goes on at other boards is of no concern as to how we judge what is charitable. The fact that something might be less insulting than something posted elsewhere doesn�t mean anything.

You wrote:
We REALLY need a greek board cause my use of English somehow provokes misundestandings. Also, I do not hate Orthodoxy... You must realise that by returning in union with Rome, the Eastern Catholics agreed that it was eastern orthodoxy that left the Church and not visa versa.

Yes, it could be that you use of English is not perfect and sometimes results in your offending others when you don�t mean to offend.

A correction: Rome does not teach that Orthodoxy left the Church. Rome teaches that the separation was one that was the product of general human sinfulness that grew into an estrangement. The Churches grew apart from one another. The task now is for the Churches to grow back together so that they may again be as one.

You wrote:
So by saying that EO are schismatics should be nothing close to provoking for EC. Now, if it provokes Eastern Orthodoxy, that is another thing. I agree with that and I apologize for that.

Again, the Catholic Church does not teach that the Orthodox are �schismatics�. Pope John Paul the Great said specifically that the word �schism� is too strong a word to describe the continuing separation.

As a new Catholic you might consider studying the teachings of the Catholic Church on these issues, especially the teachings of Pope John Paul the Great.

Admin

I have one word for our friend Armando: BALLAMAND.