[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mor Ephrem:
[QB]Dear Bob,
Dear Ephrem, I am sorry intrude upon your discussion, Itry to answer a few your question.
You written: ”The article describes bright lights, kinda like camera flashes. It looked exactly like that. How can one be sure from the video that that's not what it actually is?”
Except flash guns lightnings are there. The difference between them is seen by thousands witnesses (the color is slightly different, and many discharges are seen), also I saw a videotape, which may be easily obtained in Russia: (
www.holyfire.org/video_MosP1.htm [
holyfire.org]), there is seen very well (with slowing-down) that blue lightnings are not flash guns, they appears from icons and windows have extra brightness and others.
Further: “As far as zeal goes, my point was that it seemed (at least to me) that the miracle was being used as an example of the rightness of Eastern Orthodoxy”
Of cause a miracle could not be a base of faith but some say Holy Fire testify anything because we know that any miracle of God is given not for amusement but with a purpose.
From the other side we know the next.
1. Holy Fire appears according to Orthodox (Julian) calendar only before the date of Orthodox Easter (the method of it's date calculation also differ in Orthodox church and in other Christian denominations). “Calendar question” is one of our disagreements with Catholic church (see
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/doc_LitHavoc.htm).
2. Holy Fire descends only to Orthodox Patriarch or to his legato.
3. A few attempts to receive the Holy Fire without an Orthodox priest by Christians of other denomination where undertaking but all they failed. Two of them where undertaking by representatives of Rome catholic church. I try to translate from Russian:
a. When western pilgrims (from crusaders) visited the Saint City before conquering of Cesaria, all the city was in trouble because the Holy Fire had not appear and truthful stayed all the day … in the church of Resurrection. Then as if divine infusion Latin clergy went to Solomon temple … meanwhile Greek and Syrian were staying near the Holy Sepulchre tearing up they clothes and crying God's grace and then the Holy Fire at least descend. [Michaud, Historie des Croisades, T.11 Liv. V.]
b. The first patriarch Arnold from Shocke began his activity unsuccessfully: he ordered to drive out heretics from they domains in church of Holy Sepulchre, than he started to torture orthodox monks where they keep the Holy Cross and other remains… A few months later Arnold was replaced by Daimbert from Pease who did even more. He tried to drive out of the church of Holy Sepulchre all native Christians, even Orthodox… Soon the God's punishment crashed out: in 1101 year on Holy Sunday the miracle of descending of Holy Fire in Edicula had not occur while Eastern Orthodox where not invited for participating in this ceremony. [Steven Runciman. Eastern schism. Moscow, "Nauka", 1998, pp.69-70 (in Russian). English edition: Oxford, 1955].
It is interesting that both phenomenon where fixed and described not by Orthodox but by Roman catholics.
Futher: “And I'm not trying to discredit something like this. On the contrary, I'm trying to learn more”
You may check it yourself – that is peculiarity of this miracle.
Sorry for bad English.
Best regards,
Ioann, web-master of site about miracle of Holy Fire
www.holyfire.org [
holyfire.org]
