www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Czech married Latin priests to become Byzantine

Dragani,

Is there some acceptance of married priests at Steubenville?

Some of my conservative R C friends in Phoenix had a high estimation of a married former Episcopalian who became Catholic and who became a Catholic priest.

Dave Ignatius

"Is there some acceptance of married priests at Steubenville?"

Absolutely not. While the few students and faculty members who are aware of the Eastern Tradition can respect it, they are the exception. The majority of students believe that married priests are an aberration, and a couple of theology professors condemn it in their classes.

There is a former Anglican who teaches here, who is a married RC priest. But, oddly enough, he campaigns vigorously AGAINST married clergy. He claims to be "torn between two masters," and uses himself as an example against married priests.

I'm hoping that the situation on this campus will change in the future. Is it possible for the Latin Church to defend its practice of celibate clergy without condemning the Eastern Tradition in the process?

Anthony

Stuart wrote:

"Dr. John knows full well that married bishops were common in the Patristic Church, and that some of the most important of the Fathers were married bishops. But he also knows that the practice caused a number of pastoral and administrative difficulties as time went on, and the Church, as is entirely appropriate, met in concilliar fashion to devise rules governing the orders. There were many reasons why the Quinisextunct Council in Trullo legislated a celibate (indeed, a monastic) episcopate. On a practical level, there was nepotism and the problem of alienation of Church properties--an abuse of authority. On a pastoral and theological level, the bishop is meant to be both the father of his people, and an examplar of Christian virtue. For various reasons, the Church in the seventh century looked to monastics as providing the best pool of candidates for the episcopacy, to the extent that even today, non-monastic priests in the Orthodox Church must take monastic vows before becoming bishops. The reasons for maintaining the discipline of celibate bishops are complex and multidimensional, but the bottom-line reason is that it works, and it works well."

My response to Stuart's post may be off topic, but I give it in anticipation of the Sunday of Orthodoxy.

I am not about to contradict the practice of episcopal celibacy, but I will point out the practice did not necessarily develop for the reasons Stuart has given, at least in Constantinople. During the iconoclast controversy, the desert monks began to move into Constantinople and became the standard bearers of the iconodule position. As a result of the Victory of Orthodoxy, the monks' position was solidified vis-a-vis the demoralized secular clergy. The monks found themselves in positions to play a dominant role in the hierarchy of the Church, as well as the development of the Liturgy. There can be no doubt that monasticism has had an impact upon the episcopacy, but monasticism made its impact in Costantinople because of the iconoclast controversy.

Just my dos centavos.

John, a deacon candidate

[This message has been edited by bisantino (edited 03-04-2000).]

Elias,

Well it is a year and a half later but I stumbled upon this article (which I believe to be the one I originally remembered). I think it justifies my claims.

From Eastern Churches Journal Vol 1 #3, Pages 211-214, published Fall 1994:

Czech married priests to become Greek Catholic
"�
�The fact that Czech priests from the West lack an Eastern Greek Catholic mentality has posed problems,� said Archbisop Vlk of Prague in an interview shortly before being named a cardinal�
�
Bishop Jan Hrika of Presov has repeatedly resisted attempts to give these priests a nominal incardination in the Eparchy of Presov, on the ground that they are not Greek Catholics, they have no particular knowledge of Greek Catholicism, and the scheme to make them nominally Greek Catholic priests with �bi-ritual� faculties is nothing more than a convoluted way to enable these priests to serve Roman Catholic parishes despite their marital status."

I only posted the relevant paragraphs but I think it proves all my concerns. I would hope you now agree with my original assessment.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

The big question is: were these men Latin Catholics ordained secretly to serve the Church? Or were they Greek Catholics ordained secretly by the Latins to serve Greek Catholics (or even the Latins)?

If they were Greek Catholics, then we should be glad to have them home.

If they were Latin Catholics, then why should they be told "go East, or go away"?

I stand by my original post: don't just assume that these valiant men can easily serve in the Byzantine community since it's only a few hundred miles to the East. It's a different reality.

Perhaps the Romans can find an Armenian diocese to dump them in. Hey, it's Eastern!

These incredibly courageous Latin rite men should be left in place in their homes and their homeland; they should not be ecclesiastically 'deported' East for convenience, and they should be publicly honored and rewarded for their guts.

May the Lord preserve them and their families.

Blessings!

From an Orthodox perspective, all the BF posts are extremely informative. They provide one with a very real and down to earth view of what a united church will look like and what the destiny of Orthodoxy and the Orthodox will be, under the Sovereign and Universal Pontiff.

Very informative and keep those posts 'a comin'! You just never know who might be stopping by for a look see!

Dr. John,

The entire article, which I don't have time to post, makes it clear that these were Latin Catholics ordained to serve Latin diocese. The underground bishops ordained them because they felt it was easier for underground priests to go unnoticed if they were married. They knew of the Greek Catholic's ordination of married men and applied the same rules: married before ordination and no remarrying on the death of the spouse.

The article also wonders why these men are being forced to go to the Greek Catholic Church which doesn't even want them, when Rome could easily allow a dispensation as it does in America for converting Protestant ministers.

I also think it telling that Bishop Jan doesn't want them. He is about as Latinized as you get and even he resisted this.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 06-29-2001).]

How familiar are these men with the Byzantine Church? Do they embrace and love our spirituality and traditions? Or, do they simply want to remain priests and are willing to do anything to remain so? Will they Latinize the Exarchy of Prague?

I have the same questions.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>

As a Latin Catholic, I also agree with the majority viewpoint on this thread. If they were ordained as Latin priests, then the Latin Church is where they should stay. Someone already pointed out how the Vatican allows married protestant ministers to become priests. I see no reason why this should be any different.

I would also fear that these priests who are probably unfamiliar with alot of Eastern Sprituality would bring their Latin influences.

I see nothing but trouble in making them "move East."

Columcille

Lance,

It appears that my positive assessment may have been somewhat unfounded. It is unfortunate that we are being used as a dumping ground for unwanted Latin priests.

But the REAL tragedy, in my opinion, is that the Latin Church doesn't want these heroic men, who risked their lives for the service of Christ.

God bless,
Anthony

If Anthony Dragani were ordained as a Byzantine Catholic priest would he Protestantize his parish? I doubt it.

If StuartK were ordained as a Byzantine Catholic priest would he Judaize his parish?
I doubt it.

I am not trying to be flippant here, but I think everyone needs to realize that, although there may very well be a problem with these 22 priests we should not jump to conclusions here. The men - as individuals - are not the problem. The fact that they are coming in such a large group is the problem. I do not doubt that the Antiochian Orthodox Church is Orthodox, but every member I have ever met is a former Protestant! Perhaps those sincere people have brought some of their former Protestant Evangelicalism with them (as I believe), but they are still Orthodox Christians aren't they?

Latinisms are a problem -- of that I am convinced. But how many souls have been lost to eternal damnation because of them? Again, I'm not trying to be flippant here. I just think people should at least appreciate the fact that there are now 22 more dedicated men to serve the faithful!

If you want to prevent creeping latinisms in the Czech Republic than why not try to establish contact with these men, send them good materials, PRAY for them, etc. I know, I know, I'm just hopelessly naive...

You make good points. I don't think that these priests would intentionally "Latinize" their parishes. That said, they should at least be made familiar with Byzantine Traditions, theological perspectives, etc. Perhaps they are already familiar with them, I don't know.

Let me turn the situation around. If a Byzantine priest were to come to a Latin parish, I would expect him to know the Latin Liturgy inside and out. I would expect to get Latin theological perspectives etc.

I pray that it works out; but I also wish that the Vatican would allow them to remain in the Latin Church.

Columcille

Columcille,

I agree with you. I see no reason why these priest could not have remained in the Latin Church.

Is there even a term to express an "inappropriate" Eastern influence on Western Christian practice? We all know about "Latinisms" or "latinization", but is there a reverse? If there was would Latins complain? Just thinking...

There is no term(at least not that I'm aware of) to desribe Eastern influence on the Latin Church. I will say that icons are becoming alot more common in Latin churches. I have seen this myself in several parishes. Personally, I like it. However, knowing how sacred icons are to the Eastern Christian, I fear that alot of these Latin churches are putting them up for there "artistic" qualities, ignoring the deep spiritual meaning of them.

I have never heard a complaint about "Easternizations" in the Latin Church. We actually have bigger fish to fry such as "Protestantizations." Some Latin Liturgies are turning into Bible revival meetings, complete with campfire songs sung to the tune of guitars and tamberines. Respect for the Eucharist in many of these parishes is nonexistant. I think this is why you are starting to see a flow of Latin Catholics fleeing East. But as I have learned, that is not a good reason to leave your Church.

No, we Latins don't have to put up with "Easternizations", just the creeping Protestantism that is invading our Church

Columcille

And does the Czech Latin Church also intend to send us the Czech women who were ordained as deacons as well?

Olga