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Dear Fr. Deacon John,

I know what you are saying but it is a good pick me upper.I feel listening to songs that praise God can only have a good effect on you. You can listen with the kids & grandkids. What might be more to your taste is Peter Gabriel's "Your Eyes" it has some depth.It's funny to hear someone my age say I don't mean to disobey you.

Literature: Two lives: One Russia

Movies: Neil Simon stuff

TV : Cadfael PBS, Nero Wolf A&E, Reruns of Dark Shadows SiFi, Any News program interviewing Vice President Dick Cheney.

I bought an Enya CD with Irish songs. If you read the insert she seems to think Christianity did in pagan worship.Some of her songs lament this. I didn't read it right away. The song that influenced me and I liked the most, I came to find out was one that celebrates sam hain (sp?). I scratched it up and threw it away. I think it can pull you away from worshipping the One True God.

Nicky's Baba

Two novels that are my mainstay for Lenten reading....Kristin Lavransdottir by Sigrid Undsett and In This House of Brede by Rumer Godden.

Don

Dear Friends,

Sorry guys, but for me, "Culture" means the hopak, embroidered shirts, poyasy, funny sounding (to English ears) languages, spicy food and music with banduras, rather than guitars.

It is good that Fr. Dcn. John acknowledges that North America has its own culture.

Although you can keep it . . .

Alex

Never was into "Christian' pop or rock music — like a lot of critics I find that God uses secular musicians, singers and composers perhaps better. Religious music per se is the chants of the Church.

A favorite classical piece — Gustav Holst's The Planets, some of which is often played on church organs or used as a hymn tune.

I like a lot of the selections given here, too — things that resonate with or coincide with the faith: late-period Beatles ("Let It Be' — Paul was writing about his late mother, Mary, and not Our Lady, but that meaning does work), Simon and Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water' ("El Condor Pasa', "The Boxer' — yes!), etc. Pink Floyd's The Wall is a classic, too, and I think Christians can zero in on its theme of alienation but unlike a lot of listeners also zero in on its cause... it's comparable and perhaps BETTER than The Waste Land by T.S. Eliot, a thoroughly Old World Order kind of man (an American who became a British subject) and later an Anglo-Catholic (quite orthodox). (Funny how both works have a British connection — perhaps the secular melancholy there is unique... I remember sensing it living there.) I liked Jewel's "Hands' song too — probably my favorite of her songs I've heard. The Doobie Brothers? (It was years after their '70s heyday I learnt what a "doobie' was!) Yes. I like "The Southern Cross' as well as "Jesus Is Just All Right with Me'.

Visitors to my site know I am not only a Beatles fan but also really like George Harrison's early solo stuff (All Things Must Pass, his first and greatest solo work) — he was honest about his Hare Krishna faith (who he meant by "Lord' in his songs) but I find his devotion not too unlike Orthodoxy. (ATMP might be considered depressing by some people but I love it.) Besides "My Sweet Lord', "Beware of Darkness' on that album is brilliant. I could sing along, "Beware of прелесть'. (Or "Kyrie eleison!' to "My Sweet Lord', while George chants the names of Krishna.) I can imagine a Desert Father or старец sounding like him there. "Awaiting on You All' is a joyful Phil Spector-produced song that I think deliberately sounds like an Evangelical praise song — despite its disparagement of needing a "church house' or "rosary beads' I like it! And 1) strictly speaking he's right and 2) Hindus and Hare Krishnas have temples and prayer beads too so perhaps disparagement wasn't George's point.

And visitors to my site will know that one of my favorite pop albums of all time is the 1993 self-titled debut album of the New York band October Project, who rarely were overtly religious with Julie Flanders' lyrics but whose poetry and sound had a quality that moved a lot of spiritual people, from Reader Serge to goths and pagans. I know half that band now and they are great people, too. Do yourselves a favor and get that CD!

I also like Lao-Tzu's Tao Te-Ching (I think that is the main book of Taoism), which George quoted for his song "The Inner Light' — the lyrics are linked to my main/news page with my George tribute. The book reads a little like the wisdom books of the Old Testament, like Proverbs.

On the lighter side, the '80s cheese-pop "Every Time You Go Away, You Take a Piece of Me with You' reminds me of the Eucharist.

Yes, you can find hints of the truth in the strangest corners of secular culture. God is everywhere.

http://oldworldrus.com

Hi Serge & Folks,

Glad your Back.
I think that CCM helps bring Christ into the popular culture. We (us here) hear Christ through the songs we are talking about but many people who don't practice a faith don't hear it. So take a contemporary
beat and praise Jesus with it. Many of the stations we are listening to to hear these songs play other music that isn't always appropriate. As far as CCM songs with depth and that are interpective may I suggest Brian Duncan's entire CD "My utmost for His Highest", or Margaret Becker's "I am Clay". I can't think of the Artist or Group's name but on the Christian Station I listen to is an upbeat song called "His Favorite Song of All". Does anyone know what God's favorite song is?

Nicky's Baba

As promised...

Only a matter of time 6.35
(Dream Theater/Moore)


A suited man smiled said:
"It's just a matter of time
You can have the world at your feet by tomorrow
just sign on this line."
Hold tight... limelight!
Approaching the paramount
with the sun in our eyes
fearing family ties, legalies, compromise

In a dimly lit room with a stool as his stage
a dream-stricken prince of a pauper's descent
haunts the eavesdropping silence
that presses his window
as he sweats a performance
to an audience that ticks on the walls

To the practical observer
It's just a matter of time
"You can deviate from the commonplace
only to fall back in line."
I understand mine's a risky plan
and your system can't miss
But is security after all a cause
or symptom of happiness?

Brave, yet afraid, his eyes on horizon
in a steady-set gaze
a mariner soon from an open cocoon
takes a moment to summon his courage
to stifle his grave apprehension and
trembling, approaches the surf
A father's benediction as his hopeful son departs
to brave the sea of rage and conquer at all costs
Lingers in his memory
and visions still surviving in a logic-proof shell
that should have been held sacred, safe and hidden well
are compromised in usury
with every rising sun that yields no sight of land
the hesitation cultivates within the tired man
and rumors spread of mutiny
and though the time will come when dream and day unite
tonight the only consolation causing him to fight is fearless faith in destiny

Even when plan fall to pieces
I can still find the courage
with promise I've found in my faith

Likely or not, it's a dream that we keep
and at odds with our senses we'll climb
But if faith is the answer, we've already reached it
And if spirit's a sign
then it's only a matter of time
only a matter of time

Has anyone heard Springsteen's newest, "The Rising." It is definitely worth a listen. This album is his reaction to the 9/11 disaster but really deals with universal themes. My favorite song on this album is "Nothing Man."

John

[ 08-04-2002: Message edited by: Petrus ]

"but Contemporary Christian Music just doesn't cut it for me. It's too white-washed, too simple. For me, it doesn't sink to the depths of the human condition like, say, Metallica (I like to think that St. Andrew of Crete would have loved Metallica!) or the heights of God's promise."

Dear Petrus,

I am a musician and songwriter and I take music very serious. I have to tell you that I think your analysis of comtemporary Christian music is a little off the mark. I used to share this opinion with you, but I found that if you listen to the right artists, you can find music which is every bit as good, which even exceeds the depths and actual musical quality of many secular acts out there. The fact that they can incorporate truths of our faith, into quality pop music (if its truly quality stuff) to me shows even more talent. Like any group, you just have to give it a chance.

If interested, try checking the late Rich Mullins. He was actually an Evangelical who was one step away from being received in to the Catholic Church, when he was killed in a car accident. His album, "A Liturgy, A Legacy and a Ragamuffin Band" is phenomenal. He did things musically that no one was doing, even incorporating medieval instruments into pop music. He had the genious and creativity of say, the group Yes, but did not have their sound, but rather a sound of his own. Other quality acts include:

Jars of Clay: This group had a killer debut album (Jars of Clay) which had many hits even on the secular pop Charts.

PFR (Pray For Rain): Has every bit the power of say a Metallica but is more Rockish and not really Heavy Metal. Excellent writing and superb musicians. There album "Them" is just superb.

DC Talk: Their album "Jesus Freak" sounds right up your alley from what you described you are looking for. The also have a following even outside the Christian music scene and this album was recognized as a serious engagement of pop culture and a truly artistic musical statement for a Pop/Rap group.

Michael W. Smith's: I'll Lead You Home is another recognized pop masterpiece.

Some of the grandfathers of this musical genre that are must listens include:

The late Keith Green (who was killed in a plan crash at the height of his career): His songs "Asleep in the Light" and "Song for Josiah" have a power that you seldom experience even in secular music.

Phil Keagy: The "Motor City Madman" Ted Nuggent once remarked about Phil Keagy that he was going to "save the world" with his guitar. A phenomenal guitarist, Keagy is also an excellent songwriter as can been seen by his two CD set, compilation "Time Pieces (1970-1995)" which spans his 25 year carreer in Christian comtemporary music. "Crimson and Blue" was another excellent Rock ablum of his.

Unfortunately, many of the Evangelical stations don't play a lot of these guys. To some they are too risque'. This is why you would have to pick up their CD's to check them out.

Yet, as an Armenian, I tend to agree with "Orthodox Catholic." I am much more concerned about preserving authentic Armenian culture rather than engaging today's.

I hope this helps with the excellent discussion,

Wm. Der-Ghazarian

p.s. I agree with the writer about "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney. I think Paul must have heard a good homily growing up (his mom was Catholic and dad was Protestant) and maybe this came through in the song, even subconsciously. "Let it be" were the exact words of our "Mother Mary" which she stated to the Archangel at the Annunciation: "Let it be... done to me according to Thy Word." These are the words she points us to reply to God in the world today. The fact that Paul mentions the "broken hearted people living in a world agree... there will be an answer... Let it be" shows me he is speaking beyond his own relationship with his mother, to things universal. I know the song was primarily about his mother, but if you think about the lyrics theologically and in referrence to St. Mary, this song becomes a beautiful religious statement. Fr. Thomas Hopko of St. Vladimir's, gave a nice talk on "Mary the Icon of Christian Perfection" in which he elaborates on "Let it Be" which compliments a religious understanding of the song.

[ 08-09-2002: Message edited by: Der-Ghazarian ]

[quote]The late Keith Green (who was killed in a plan crash at the height of his career): His songs "Asleep in the Light" and "Song for Josiah" have a power that you seldom experience even in secular music.[quote]

Another Catholic who likes Keith Green! Wow! I still remember the first time I listened to the album "So You Want to go Back to Egypt?" I still listen to his songs even if he was fairly anti-Catholic. I'm sure he knows better now...

His last album "Songs for the Shepherd" is another of my favorites!

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Yes Dave,

I know his legacy as an anti-Catholic, yet his wife has erased some of this information he dissiminated incorrectly. Sometimes zeal blinds us, as I'm sure you know. Yet, this is what drew me to his music, his extreme zeal and desire for the living God. His music radiates the love of Christ in such a profound way that I have seldom herd from others. It is no wonder that he is the god-father and forerunner of Christian contemporary music. Perhaps if he had lived longer, he would have had time to reconsider his understanding of Catholicism. Like you said, I'm sure he sees the Catholic Church in a better Light today.

My best friend (who now is also a Catholic -that makes three of us ) introduced me to his music starting with the song "Asleep in the Light" which is just a classic. I've been hooked ever since. Its nice to know you and I share a love for his music. Thanks for letting me know this.

[ 08-09-2002: Message edited by: Der-Ghazarian ]

Hello guys,
I kind of like groups like Rithie Blackmore's Rainbow, Kansas and Heart. I think you will always find songs that make you go back i9n time and remember the days when you were an altar-boy, one of the best times in my life. And from these bands you will always find lyrics the give you some kind of inspirational message. Rainbow always has some kind of mystical story and I think it's cool.
Lauro

Wow, Lauro, you know about Kansas is Brazil? I am impressed! Kerry Livgren lives about two miles from me, and I see him at the post office occasionally. "Carry on my Wayward Son" was my favorite song for a long time in my middle school days many years ago...

Speaking of Enya, Enya's older sister Maire Brennan and Clannad have some great music also.

There are some forms of traditional folk music, especially Bulgarian, Macedonian and much Celtic/Breton music that are as exciting as any rock and roll. Especially some of those Bulgarian horos in 11/16, 13/16 and other bizarre time signatures...some real old time village rock n' reel...