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the Instruction for Applying the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches urges the restoration of minor orders as functional orders in the Church rather than as formal stepping stones for candidates for ordination to the priesthood. Is this being urged or done anywhere? This is to bring the Byzantine Catholic churches closer to their role as stepping stones between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. But it seems nothing or little is being done?

In most Eastern Catholic jurisdictions the only order other than the priesthood being actively used is that of Deacon, which is still a major order. But this is not a problem for union with the Orthodox as most of them are doing the same. There is a lot that separtes us from the Orthodox but this is not one of them.

The deacon programs are first to reappear because they are the most important roles in parish life and the clearest ones as well.

I do not have any direct knowledge on this but I suspect that the reason other orders do not exist yet is time and resources. The vast majority of our priest must serve parishes. We have no full time staff to create programs and develop candidates. Holy Orders are forever and in the current culture in America our church will have to be extremely careful about who they ordain. Commitment is not what it used to be and people dropping out of the Church or doing publicly sinfull things after ordination is a huge potential problem.

But I really am only guessing.

i think the orthodox do continue to use minor orders, at least i see men posted with these titles? but there may be a total drift, at least in the usa, towards lay performance of most roles, with or without training. yes, ordination is forever, but if this is kept from us we have only the one channel, priesthood, and this is not for most. the diaconate has been revived but mostly in theory, i would guess. i checked and parma has 3 deacons! applicants seem on hold indefinitely... i know several who have given up since no real response. i also think these orders, minor, are lost when the only ones in them are those in seminary. the only problem i see if we were to pursue these is the question of gender. as of now, in both east and west, these roles are reserved for males (in latin rite, women can perform the roles but NOT be "instituted" in them by a bishop; so in practice it is ignored and kept for seminarians). I believe that the more channels open the better. It waas once possible for older people, men and wommen, to give their lives to the Church. now the communities do not want MORE old people; the minor orders are gone; so where is the path? I am retired but able, well educated (besides my PhD I am almost done with a MDiv), and I would enoy that eternal connection of orders; as would many others I would think. Yes, the problem of gate-keepiong and formation. But this is a problem only because the Church seems stuck in doing it all the 19th cent way. i was a specialist in developing programs that would come from what what is needed and what was available and "outcomes" rather than custom was basic. The idea of bringing students, candidates, into a box for a full-time experience as the only way to do it is not only out-dated but also impractical. So, we focus upon seminaries which were meant to be replicas of monastic life and schools which were develoed before there were books much less electronics and air travel. And we fail in our mission to find new people to work in the church, except as the age-old volunteers, which is good but NOT the only and best way. rambling on, i guess. HAPPY EASTER...

Dear Wasyl:

Christ is Risen!

What you seem to be saying is that the church would be better off to take the "university without walls" approach to education. If that indeed is what you're suggesting, I'd agree wholeheartedly.

Having accomplished the majority of my undergrad work through such a "non-traditional, non-campus based" institution, I know that there's much to be said for the adaptability and flexibility of that structure - especially for working adults, older returning students, and others who don't quite fit into the convenient one-size-fits-all molds.

In Christ,

CAPTL
sinner

fellow sinner and brother in Christ, yes, that is what i would seek! I developed these programs as well as directed them and studied with them. but i see our only seminary stuck on the "monastery" model with the old idea that monks are the perfection of Christianity so lay people can seek perfection by emulating them, for a time, in a mock monastery. I think this is true BUT cannot be the only way. I found a "city" monastery in Paris while strolling the streets, it was most impressive. I am an oblate of St Benedict, so I love the monastic life; but there are othre ways. We have few deacons, few formed readers and cantors, a dwindling number of priest, yet we cling to the model that was consstruted about 200 years ago, before our technologies of communication and travel. But glad someone spotted my direction. peace upon you, fellow sinner and Christian.

Has any eparchy in the US or Canada developed a policy towards minor orders, beyod that for seminarians? Or have they in the European churches? I have read the Instructions on minor orders, but have never seen any official response from the Byz Cath eparchs or the metropolitan? Has there been any? Christ is Risen!

Christos Anesti! Alithos Anesti!
Tonight I was at Matins and Liturgy at St. John the Baptist Greek Orthodox Church here in Boston, which my grandparents helped establish. While there, I was recollecting that the altar servers there traditionally were tonsured by the Bishop when he came on pastoral visitation. They were invested with the sticharion as well as a stole that was crossed in the back and came over the shoulders and was tucked through the part that crossed the waist. (I also remember on several occasions that they wore little crosses on gold chains around the neck.

The psalti (cantors), as older gentlemen, had been altar servers in their earlier years, and thus were already tonsured and vested. As psalti, they wore the riason, the monastic style 'over-cassock' with the so-called angel wing sleeve, and hovered as a group around the twirling-top lectern up front by the bishop's throne. Among them was a proto-psalti, who had been given a double-eagle pectoral with crown above it to signify his rank. (The older gentleman who is protopsalti at St. John's was 'on duty' tonight with a younger man apprentice. Despite advanced age and stooping posture, he led everything in that large church building.) The priest used microphones.

So, our mother church does have a tradition of 'minor orders' if that is the correct word. I think it's a good idea to do things this way, because being 'publicly called' and acknowledged before the community for your service is a way to reinforce peoples' generosity and good intentions. And yes, I think the psalti should be robed, whether men or women, and I think psalti should be chosen because they know how to read and sing music, they have pleasant voices, they know the liturgy, and they don't have Nazi tendencies in their dealings with other people. (I remember a Russian church where one woman had a collection of music books and distributed them to a 'privileged few', who could read Russian, and who met her musical standards. The books were dutifully collected at the end of every service.)

My point is: God gave everybody different talents with the expectation that we use them for His glory. Both men and women. If you have been given the gift of music, your ability to lead the community in singing the liturgy should not be restricted by your body's plumbing. As far as the question goes of "is this a minor order", let's be good Byzantines and not even ask the question. When the bishop comes, let's have him 'vest' the psalti, and give them a symbolic typikon, pitch pipe or a bottle of blessed Listerine. And then leave them to the task of trying to get the congregation to open their mouths and give praise and thanks to God. Cause that's their job.

Kalyi Anastasi! Happy Resurrection!

dr john, yes, BUT as of today, robing and ordination, to both minor and major orders is restricted to males, by law. AND i would guess because eof this, the entire practice of vesting and certainly of ordaining to miinor orders is in limbo (if that state remains?). so, it seems we fumble about, perhaps over the gender issue, perhaps because of the Latinization of the Byz Cath church? Buy, meanwhile, I try to do what I can with the gifts given to me; and pray that if God wishes to see me, use me, as an ordained minister, He will open the hearts and eyes of His ministers, His bishops. Christ is Risen!
I sshall be away for a week, visiting grandchildren. Peace be with you....