www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Patriarchs Husar and Filaret will celebrate a moleben together in Kyiv

I have just read from the UGCC site, that the copy of the Turin Shroud that has been in the city of Lviv for the past few months will be transfered to the capital city of Ukraine, Kyiv.
The shroud will be taken to the Sobor of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate St. Volodimyr's, and will be left there for a week. Both Patriarchs will recieve the shroud at the central train station and afterwards celebrate an eccumenical Moleben. This of course will only strengthen the relationship between the two churches and maybe open the eyes and hearts of many. I wonder what's going through the mind of the Moscow Patriarch.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

The MP is probably thinking, "Who declared either of them to be Patriarchs?"

The Moscow Patriarchate Churches themselves are obtaining copies of the Shroud of Turin for veneration as their parish "Plaschchanytsia."

Russian language publications over there do tend to lump the UGCC, the UOC-KP, and the UAOC together as reps of the one Church of the "Kyivan tradition."

Well, at least we're in great company, don't you think?

Alex

Alex,
I really do think we are in good company and it is very nice to see the three getting along. The three of them should get together more frequently and maybe come up with a motto like:"All for one and one for all" I think I heard or read that somewhere before.
Lauro

With whom is Patriarch Filaret in communion?

Dear Brendan,

As far as I know, with nobody.

But the Ukie Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, get along famously.

And we have the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Churches to thank for that . . .

A blessed Pascha to you and your family, Pillar of Orthodoxy!

Alex

Dear Brendan,
I think he's in communion with God and a pretty good and significant number of Ukie Orthodox.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

Perhaps one day we really will be one Kyivan Church.

The Russians keep referring to us as such and I think they have the right idea!

We should listen to them in this respect, after all they are our elder brothers . . .

A happy Pascha to you!

Alex

Dear Alex,
If you only knew how much I pray for that day.
This day would even be greater than the Idependance day of Ukraine, at least in my opinion, because people would stop arguing and paying attenion to insignificant differences and would start working for the well being of our people and country, spiritually, socially and why not say politically as well.
I wish you and your family a fantastic,Holy and memorable Pascha
Lauro

Dear Ukie Friends:


I think three factions within an Eastern Church getting along, even famously, to me is less than ideal: it could be a euphemism for "on the long road to resolving jurisdictional chaos."

Adding the UOC-MP into the mix, as a 4th dimension, could very well scuttle the long-desired independence and autonomy of the historic Kyivan Church.

The Orthodox paradox, to me at least, of "unity in faith, multiplicity of jurisdictions" should be redefined to underscore, for once, jurisdictional unity as a necessity.

AmdG

Dear Amado,

The only way the UOC-MP could get into the mix is if they learn to speak proper Ukrainian.

When it comes to literary Russian, we just don't "speaka da language."

At least we try not to . . .

Patriarch Filaret actually blessed the members of his flock to go out and attend the Papal services during you-know-who's visit to Ukraine.

Not every Orthodox leader will do that, you know!

Alex

We Ukies "no capeche" when it comes to that Russian business

I thank God and pray for the continued intercession of all of the saints of Rus-Ukraine for the continued work of unity. Three out of four (UGCC, UOC-KP, UAOC) getting along isn't too bad.

And don't forget, Ukrainian TV just aired a segment last month which stated that Patriarch Lubomyr was by far the "most trusted hierarch" of ANY denomination in Ukraine.

To the hierarchs Lubomyr and Filaret, eis polla eti Despota.

Hmm. I'm not meaning to confront here, but I think that the fact that Patriarch Filaret is not in communion with anyone else in the Orthodox world is at least an issue .... as this Orthodox understands Orthodox ecclesiology, it requires each local church to remain in communion with the other local Orthodox churches, barring heresy. As far as I am aware, since Patriarch Filaret left the communion of the Russian Orthodox Church (who is, of course, in communion with the remainder of Orthodoxy), no other local Orthodox church has entered into communion with the group headed by Patriarch Filaret, so I think the the question of the "Orthodoxy" of his group is a fair question.

Brendan

Dear Brenden,
I believe that the question that you put is fair for sure, but I think that this issue is only a question of time. Let's not forget that when the Moscovites proclaimed their patriarchal status, world Orthodoxy only recognized it after a couple of centuries, and I don't think it'll take that long for a Ukrainian Patriarchate to be recognized.
Lauro

Dear Ipreima,

Yes, and the day when Ukrainian Orthodox need approval from the Russian Orthodox to be fully "canonical" and "Orthodox" is the day all Ukrainian Orthodox should make their exit from canonical Orthodoxy . . .permanent.

I don't understand how world Orthodoxy can pronounce that the only way for the current crisis in Ukraine and its Orthodox Churches (read: Russians aren't happy) can only come about if the "schismatics" (read: UOC-KP and UAOC and others of that ilk) return to "Orthodoxy" (read: ROC).

I also don't understand, but yes I do, why the ROC can, at one and the same time, maintain its "innocence" with respect to the ecclesiacide of the UGCC in 1946 and yet, today, act as if the "synod" was perfectly legitimate and independent of the soviet military power and politics.

The veneration of Fr. Gabriel Kostelnyk, a tragic figure to be sure, was promoted by the soviet authorities until Gorbachev. Priests in western Ukraine "had" to attend the annual panakhyda for him.

Rather than simply forget about that aspect of the soviet times, (or even to ask for forgiveness?) the ROC seems to be hell-bent on canonizing Fr. Gabriel as a saint - something akin to the movement in some Russian circles to canonize Tsar Ivan the Terrible and Rasputin.

The ROC is also becoming quite anti-Catholic as evidenced on a recent Akathist to St Peter Mohyla that is on the site "akafist.narod.ru."

The Akathist makes several hard thrusts at "Catholics and Uniates" in its reinterpretation of the life of an Orthodox Holy Father, to be sure, but who was quite open to dialogue with the West.

Anyway . . .

Alex

I guess the ROC have a long, long way to go. They just don't understand what the words cooperation, respect and love mean, and because of this they are losing ground and will continue to do so, until somebody buys them a dictionary. Somebody should also think about offering them some classes of Ukrainian since they want to be a Ukrainian Church. As for world Orthodoxy recognizing or not a Ukrainian Patriarchate, only time will tell. At the moment they aren't really interested in us and to be honest with you I don't think the Vatican is either, the Pope maybe but the Vatican is another issue.
Lauro