www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology New Latinized Archbishop and Metropolitan

First, congratulations to the forum's Byzantine Catholics for the selection of your new Archbishop and Metropolitan. This is long overdue.

As I have already stated elsewhere, I once thought very seriously about converting to the Orthodox Church, and then to the Byzantine Catholic Church in America (although this wouldn't exactly be a "conversion", strictly speaking"). As a result, I feel a sort of affinity with my Byzantine brothers, and try to keep myself informed on what's going on in the BCA.

I must say, I was a bit disappointed with who was selected as the new Archbishop.

My understanding is that the newly selected is a "Byzantine Franciscan Friar".

Give me a break . . .

The Eastern Chruches have been commanded by Rome in recent years to return to their Eastern traditions, customs, and mindsets. Latinizations were one of the things that turned me off from becoming a Byzantine Catholic, and I was hoping that new bishops and archbishops would bring about a renewal in Eastern patrimony and really crack down on Latinizations.

(I say this as a Latin Catholic.)

But you really don't get any more Latinized than 'Byzantine friary". If Eastern Christians want to have private devotion to Saint Francis, then by all means feel free to do so! But the Byzantine Church in America is in such desperate need for an authentic renewal in Eastern monasticism, that I see this selection as a step backwards.

The only truly Byzantine monastery (that's Catholic) in this country is Holy Resurrection in California (I was looking into joining this monastery at one time). It is my hope that all these Latinized order abandon their current affiliations and follow Holy Resurrection's example.

I realize this all won't happen overnight, but the selection of a Metropolitan from one of these "orders"???

I dunno . . . I'm not too enthusiastic. I was hoping someone from Holy Resurrection would have been selected for the job. (The skete is very new, however, and may not have qualified candidates.)

The again, I'm only a 17 year-old Latin, and have no where near the wisdom that our Holy Father John Paul does; so I suppose I'll content myself with his judgement.

After all, my own Church has enough problems of its own. I should set about trying to fix those and leave the Byzantine . . . "friars" . . . (*ugh*) . . . to you guys.

Now pardon me as I go off to assassinate some liturgical dancers . . .

As a 19-year-old Byzantine Catholic who has no other desire than to become an authentic Eastern Catholic monk at Holy Resurrection Monastery...I understand and appreciate your thoughts. I can also understand and appreciate your struggles with Orthodoxy vs. Eastern Catholic vs. Roman Catholic that you had in the past (as mentioned in your intro.).

We Byzantines can only hope that our church will become more and more Eastern in the proper Byzantine spirit...grant this, O Lord!

In Christ,

+Timothy, servant of God

Thank you for your understandings, and good luck with your vocation!!!!


Pardon me for going off topic, but wouldn't the proper term be "Latin Catholic", not "Roman Catholic"?

I always see Church documents refer to the autonomous ritual church of the Pope as the "Latin Church", not the "Roman Church".

"Roman Catholic", as I understand it, is largely a Protestant/anti-Catholic/secular term which denotes the faith and practice of all Christians in communion with the Pope of Rome, including Eastern Catholics. The Encyclopedia Britannica and other secular sources, for example, refer to Eastern Catholics as "Roman Catholic".

What are your particular thoughts on the selection of the new Metropolitan?

Yo, Tim!

Do you live in California, near the Monastery?

I understand that there's an Oriental Orthodox (Coptic) monatsery near by. Have there ever been concelebrations of the Liturgy between the two churches?

Dear John Cantius,

Well, just having an Eastern Rite Franciscan Order doesn't imply rabid Latinization.

Such orders were actually promoted by Andrew Sheptytsky. Perhaps one of the most Latinized ones is not an Eastern branch of a Latin Order but the Basilians themselves.

Rome is following the Eastern tradition of selecting a bishop from among the monastic ranks.

The fact is that the Ruthenians have a strong Franciscan presence.

From what I have learned, the Franciscans are not promoters of Latinization and enjoy a good reputation among the people. The Third Order is especially in good repute and you never know when you are going to bump into a Byzantine Franciscan Tertiary!

The question really is if the Ruthenians themselves are happy with Rome's selection of their Chief Hierarch.

The answer continues to be a resounding "Yeah!"

Besides, St Francis crossed himself with three fingers and was actually quite close to the Eastern Church in his time. His Cross of St Damiano is actually an Orthodox Cross.

Alex

Dear John Cantius,

No, I don't live anywhere near the monastery. I live in PA, so it will be a long trip to go to the monastery. Although I am looking forward to it, when I am able and ready to go.

Yes, there is a Coptic monastery (St. Anthony's) near Holy Resurrection, and I know that the Byzantine monks have attended Coptic services in the past. I also know that the Copts have come to the Byzantine monastery for visits, and also perhaps for the Divine Liturgy, although I'm not sure.

Blessings,

Tim

Matter o'fact, all three of the new hierarchs have Franciscan roots. Bp. Designate Fr. John Kudrick entered the TOR Franciscans, and Bps Bill Skurla and Basil Schott both entered the Byz. Franciscans in Sybertsville.

I am not privy to the thought processes or the workings of the episcopal selection folks, nor of the Holy Father, so I dunno if this is by coincidence or design. I also think it may be premature to designate any of them as "Latinized." At the time they all entered, there was no Holy Resurrection Monastery. Just the Basilians, the Byz Benedictines and the Byz Franciscans.

Prayers for all of our hierarchs & hierarchs-to-be.

Sharon

Sharon mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Hi,

I live about an hour from the monastery. Will be joining our seminary (Diocese of San Bernardino) in August. Which coptic church are you talking about? I will be visiting the monastery soon and bringing hopefully a massive amount of Latin Catholics there from our diocese to learn more about the East and their customs.

Keep me in your prayers.

-Joe

Cool, Tim!

I, too, live nowhere near the house of religious formation for the Society of Saint John Cantius. (Once they become "The Canon Regulars of John Cantius" it will be known as a "canonry".) It's all the way in Chicago and I'm in Florida.

The brothers have asked me to bring up some alligator jerkey when I arrive on June 30th. When's your date of entrace as a postulant?

How do your parents feel about your vocation? Mine weren't supportive at all. My dad didn't see it as a "real career" and thought I was being "lazy" for wanting to become a monk. (Lazy, ha! Then again, I can't blame him. His previous experience had been with Jesuits . . . ) and my mom thought I should wait till I'm older before making such a decision. For the most part, they're behind me now. My dad saw how strict that they were. I lost eight pounds in the course of my visit during spring break, and have lost almost 10 more. He's begun to respect it.

My mom's also supportive, although she and I have to work out other problems (some family stuff; long story . . . ) before I leave. Please keep me in your prayers!

That's some interesting info about the Copts. Are we Catholics allowed to concelebrate with them, or recieve Eucharist in their churches?

There's a Coptic monastery & church about 10 or 15 miles down some VERY bad road from Holy Resurrection Monastery. Relations between the two foundations have always been most cordial.


Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

John Cantius,

Since you have already tried and convicted our new bishops of latinization you must be personally well acquainted with them. That's a pretty big accomplishment for someone who is 17 years old. You must have also spent a lot of time in California at the monastery in order as well as all the other monasteries to form such an opinion. Can you tell us about your personal experiences of latinization in each of the individuals you have condemned as well as each of the monasteries?

If you can't provide personal testimony you might consider and keeping the condemnations to your self.

Thank you,
Admin

JC:

And please refrain from denigrating the Jesuits, my personally preferred Order.

Aside from their casuistry, the SJs have done, and are doing, their part of the bargain!

Humor me, instead, because I might call on Al Capone's underlings to prevent you from coming to my town, Chicago.

AmdG, a Jesuit propagandist.

Dear friends,

I thought assassinations were what atheistic communnists did to our Bishops, such as Blessed Theodore Romzha. To do that to misguided dancers seems, well, un-Christ-like.

I remember when I was about 17 and thought a "fryer" was a kind of chicken. I guess it is good that a young man has an awareness of "friars".

St. Francis, of course, is venerated as a Saint of the Universal Church, which is manifested in both the East and the West. There are many gifts and many callings and many apostolates and many Particular Churches, but there is One Universal Church.

Praise God for Byzantine Francisans, Ukrainian Cardinals, Polish Icons (Our Lady of Czestochowa)(yes, I know the history of the Czestochowa icon). And remember that the Fransican crucifix is an Iconic depiction of the Lord's sacrifice.

Now, maybe we need some some Latino / German / Italian Studites? Maybe an Irish Lavra?

Holy Martyrs of the Twentieth Century, pray to God for our young friend, neighbor,and Brother "John Cantius".

Best wishes, fellow Pilgrim.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

The Antiochian Orthodox have several "orders" - even something very similar to the Benedictine Oblates. Are they Latinized? We shouldn't be jumping to conclusions too fast.

Alex, as usual you come through with the reality check. Metropolitan Sheptytsky had to use one Latin order (the Redemptorists) in addition to the Studites to counteract the Latinization of his own Basilian Order. It's also quite ironic that some of the most "vostochne" or Easternizers in the UGCC have been the Redemptorists - Metropolitans Volodymyr Sternuik and Maxim Hermaniuk of blessed memory and our bishops Koltun and Stasiuk currently serving.
Subdeacon Randolph, a sinner

Mr. Cantius,

As Sharon stated the 3 new Hierarchs have Franciscan roots. I find it interesting when the Church in the US is in the midst its worse crisis they are appointed. I think its Lord telling them his Church is falling down and he wants them to build it back up. Just like he told St. Francis at San Damiano. People cannot see past the ugliness right now. I believe our(the Eastern Catholic) Church will be called upon to show that "the beauty of His House" still exists in the Catholic Church in this country. Their appointments are blessings.

Nicky's Baba