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Hi! I'll be attending Divine Liturgy this weekend at a Byzantine church (provided Hurricane Rita cooperates) and have a couple simple questions.

1. Do women wear head coverings? What about girls?

2. The bulletin says:

Nineteenth Sunday after Pentecost
Sunday 25 September 2005
Third Hour ~ 9:30 AM
Divine Liturgy ~ 10 AM

Other weeks do not have the Third Hour included. I also thought that Orthros was done before Divine Liturgy. I know I am confused. Would you please help me understand?

In my Byzantine Catholic Church, women or girls do not wear headcoverings.

Please let us know your experience with the Divine Liturgy when you return.

Keep safe in the storm - our prayers are with you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

It is perfectly acceptable for a woman to veil her head while in church, and it is the custom for many women at my parish. One of the reasons for the veils is because women have a special holiness, and so are veiled like other things in Church which are especially holy (i.e., the Holy Gifts).

Some parishes celebrate Orthros in its fullness before Divine Liturgy (which usually means much longer before Liturgy), but the celebration of Third Hour also makes sense since the Third Hour is actually about 9:00, so celebrating that hour right before Liturgy is also acceptable (and is regularly done at the Russicum, the Russian College in Rome, as a friend of mine who studied at Rome has told me).

--Mark Therrien

Thank you both! I was just reading an old thread about RCs who come and go through the EC churches hoping for an equivalent of the Latin Mass. Maybe I'd better not show up as a new-comer RC AND wearing a mantilla (which I've never owned or worn). They'd probably excuse away a lack of headcovering in a parish where it was common faster than they would the presence of one in a parish where it was not.

I will try to attend the Third Hour as well, as it does not appear they have them too often. I will definitely share when I get back...

Just go and enjoy. Don't worry and why and wherefores there is just too much going on the Divine Liturgy to be concerned about how to do things. It usually takes a few times just to absorb the action at hand.

Wondering, some do and some don't wear headcoverings at our church. It is not mandated nor mentioned. My wife and several others do.

Ideally Orthros/Matins should indeed be celebrated in the morning, however because of pastoral considerations, cantors making it, priest having other Divine Liturgies (or Masses if biritual, etc.) it is often not possible.

The Third Hour typically is to be served about 9 am or so, and thus the schedule makes perfect sense. In many places Third and Sixth Hour are both read before the Divine Liturgy (First Hour having been read immediately after Matins).

***Dear Wondering, since I see you are in Dallas and the times you gave match St Basil The Great's schedule, I guess that is where you will be attending. Welcome! Most women do not wear head coverings, but some older women do. The third hour is done every week before Divine Liturgy as far as I know unless there's a priest substituting who doesn't do it, doesn't speak much English, etc. Hope you enjoy your visit with us. Unfortunately you missed the great Slavic food we had after the Liturgy last week (prepared by Fr. Stephen's sisters and mother who are visiting from Pennsylvania) -Jason

Blagoslavi,
You are correct! I did not see this until this afternoon upon returning home; I wish I had seen it sooner to know to look for you.

We were in time for the Third Hour prayer service but spent it in the narthex talking about what to expect with a very kind parishioner. My husband and I both greatly liked the church and the service. We got a little lost going between the yellow, pink, and blue booklets trying to figure out what was being sung and when. We just gave up and followed along. A number of people asked us if it was our first Divine Liturgy, so I think it was a little obvious. Ha ha ha! All were extremely kind and helpful.

The iconographer Jim stayed after and told us about the beautiful icons. We were so busy talking to others we only had a chance to shake Father's hand. Our daughter is still talking about all the other little girls she played with--so many little girls!

Things that we were not expecting: the bells attached to the thurible. We kept hearing bells while the priest was preparing and were wondering where they were coming from. How many times people crossed themselves (and this we were even told before). The lector standing in the middle of the church instead of at the front. The one prayer (cannot remember if it was the Creed, communion prayer, or when) that was spoken--after everything being sung, this one spoken prayer seemed so very odd!

We both felt very welcomed and comfortable and look forward to attending again!

(We heard about Fr's food from someone else. Suppose we'll have to make due with the Our Lady of Lebanon food festival next weekend! ha ha!)

Yes, the bells and the many crossings are derived from the First Byzantine Principle of Exuberance; it is Liturgy as it would be designed by children, as opposed to the sober, grown-up Latin variety. Glad you liked it.
-Daniel

Hi Wondering - you do not have to cover your head in Byzantine Catholic churches. If you feel more comfortable worshipping that way, then by all means do so, even if it is with a not entirely "correct" mantilla. In some churches local tradition may vary - like in my old baba's church, which was Orthodox, tradition was for women to cover their heads and to wear skirts or dresses. (Hey, you will never see flip flops or those ugly belly shirts that hardly anyone looks good in anyway there.) My rule of thumb - if unsure as to local tradition, have a big enough, conservative scarf that matches your clothes in your pocket and that you can put on if you come in and find a sea of babushkas. My preference is against wearing headgear - I find it annoying and distratcing - but, as they say, when "in Rome...", y'know...

Thanks Annie!
The church I visited had one veil that I noticed and there was a diversity of clothing (pants, skirts, dresses, etc). My husband felt a little overdressed in his suit. (But he looked so very handsome... ) I'll keep it in mind that some are more conservative than others if we visit anywhere else.

I have another thread in which I asked about some technicalities about the differences between East and West. If you know of where I can look into it more, I'd appreciate your stopping by there.

When you heard the bells on the censor before the royal doors were open the Priest was saying the Proskomedia... So Liturgy starts before you see the Priest come and open up the Royal Gates/Doors. Bowing and crossing traditions range, varying from people going full prostration (like the Muslims do.. and yes they got that from Eastern Christians I believe) or just at the "standard times."

Pyrohy,
Thanks! We'll have to visit a few other churches after we have gone enough to remember what is going on when so we can compare.