www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Is Islam a heresy?

Christos Voskrese!
Voistinu Voskres!
(Slava Isusu Christu!
Slava Na Viki!)

Hello, peace be with all. Firstly, I post this question here in this particular section because I believe it is a major part of the eastern faith to know if its greatest oppressor is a heresy. I have read in a few articles and in a book ("Eastern Christendom") that the self-proclaimed prophet Muhammed was under heavy influence by mariolaters (a group of heretics) and that his book of "prophecy", Al-Qur'an, has opinions of Christianity based on the opinions of heretics. Not to mention the way he butchered those Jews in Madinah. Also, what about what I hear of Muslim worship and architecture being copied off that of Eastern Christianity? Is this true as well?

I ran across a site accidently tonight, called www.answering-islam.com, [answering-islam.com,] hoping to find some apologetics help, but it was an anti-Christian site! I could not believe it, the stuff they posted. They tried to pull out anything they could about "Jesus not being God" and there "being no mention of Trinity in the bible". They tore everything out of context and they have the most horrendous theological approach about christianity that completely destroys any argument
they may have even though to have had. Also, they seemed very angry against everyone who wasn't Arab/Muslim/Fanatic (go figure).

Your opinions on this will be greatly appreaciated.
Thank you,
Christos Voskres, Voistinu Voskres!
-Justin

Justin, I wouldn't take this guy seriously, not just for the way he takes Christianity and Judaism out of context, and yet strains to show the context of Muslim claims. Justice requires that he show both. But that isn't my main problem with the guy and his site.

This is:

Osama bin Laden: At least he stood up for our 1.5 million Iraqi victims from the Gulf War [1] [2] [3] [4], while the rest of the Arab governments bent over to their US god. He was against all of the dictators in the Muslim world, and considered them as infidels, and wanted to assassinate them and topple them, but the US and its ally forces were already in the Gulf region, and in the Holy Lands of Mecca and Madina, and caused the death of 1.5 million Iraqis, 500,000 of them were children, according to the first three links of the Western sources above. He was against all evil. He was terribly misunderstood. He is my hero! (see his picture when he was 14) May Allah Almighty rest his soul.

Now I'm no fan of Israel, and I support the Palestinian people while condemning violence all around as much as the next guy, but I would hope even sensible people who support the Palestinians would not support the above claim.

Obviously, we are heretics, according to the Christian religion.

That is the very first thing we tell those Christians who attend our prayer circles, so they will not be deceived.

Muhammed was a tough cookie. This is something we accept without apology since he was a mere man and actually had more in common with Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Joshua, Saul, David, Solomon, etc., and the other Old Testament prophets-- personality wise-- than he had with Jesus.

From what our once-upon-a-time Christian father taught us, it seems that at least some of these Old Testament prophets, who shared much of Muhammed's personality traits, are saints of the Catholic Church or they are held in high esteem by both the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

Islam is very much an Old Testament type of religion.

Obviously, to you, Muhammed is a false prophet, and how could he be otherwise? But, again, this is not an issue for us since we believe in the revelation of Allah,

"There is no God but God,

and Muhammed is the messenger of God."

This is our creed.

We also believe in the prophethood of Jesus, but we obviously are not trinitarian, but are unitarian.

Objectively speaking, there probably can never be any real and lasting peace between Islam and Christianity.

We seem to have been made for holy war.

Muslims are the slaves of Allah and slaves serve their Master without complaint and without questioning His revelation.

May all of us serve our families with fervor and honor.

Abdur

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Reader beware:

The web site posted by Justin is a fundamentalist site.

Many Muslims would take exception to the interpretations of Islamic truth posted on this site, just as a Catholic Christian would take exception to a Protestant fundamentalist's interpretation of Christianity.

Abdur

Justin,

Christ is Risen!

I would refer you to an excellent text by a renowned Catholic historian, Hilaire Belloc, THE GREAT HERESIES. First published by Sheed & Ward in 1938 and reprinted by TAN Books in 1991. The following paragraph is from a chapter entitled, The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed: "Mohammedanism was a heresy: that is the essential point to grasp before going any further. It began as a heresy, not as a new religion. It was not a pagan contrast with the Church; it was not an alien enemy. It was a perversion of Christian doctrine. Its vitality and endurance soon gave it the appearance of a new religion, but those who were contemporary with its rise saw it for what it was --not a denial, but an adaption and a misuse, of the Christian thing. It differed from most (not from all) heresies in this, that it did not arise within the bounds of the Christian Church. The cheif heresiarch, Mohammed himself, was not, like most heresiarchs, a man of Catholic birth and doctrine to begin with. He sprang from pagans. But that which he taught was in the main Catholic doctrine, oversimplified. It was the great Catholic world--on the frontiers of which he lived, whose influence was all around him and whose territories he had known by travel--which inspired his convictions. . . . If anyone sets down those points that orthodox Catholicism has in common with Mohammedanism, and those points only, one might imagine if one went no further that there should have been no cause of quarrel. . . . But the central point where this new heresy struck home with a mortal blow against Catholic tradition was a full denial of the Incarnation.'

Justin, I think Belloc's description is a valid one.

Lazareno

Yes, Islam is " the Great and Enduring Heresy," and we appreciate the fact that Belloc acknowledged it as such.

Of course, though Muslims recognize that Christians certainly believe--and must believe--that Islam is a heresy, we believe it is a new revelation from God.

Belloc certainly is correct in his affirmation of one of the central doctrines of Allah's ( God"s ) revelation to mankind through the Holy Quran: the denial that Deity is incarnate.

However, the denial of incarnate Deity is not a belief exclusive to Islam since it is a central and core belief of Judaism and other faiths.

Certainly, Islam and Judaism have much more in common with one another than either Islam or Judaism has with Christianity.


Salaam,

Abdur

BTW: Muslims never refer to Islam as "Muhammedism," anymore than most Byzantine Catholics would refer to their faith as "uniatism."

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Dear Friends,

Well, I think some of us Christians have a tendency to run all over Islam and that is not Christian. It is too easy to do this in today's atmosphere and since the U.S. and its Allies are at war with Muslims.

Also, I personally cannot accept that Islam was ever a "heresy."

To be heretical, one must first of all be Christian to begin with.

Heretics are Christians whose understanding of Christian doctrine is not in keeping with that of the Church. It is a deliberate act of defiance against the Church one belongs to.

Islam may have borrowed this and that from other faiths, very much like other religions do as well, but unless someone can prove that Muhammad was ever a baptized Christian or belonged to any Christian Church or sect, he was not a heretic in the strict theological understanding of the term.

Alex

Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

To be heretical, one must first of all be Christian to begin with.

Heretics are Christians whose understanding of Christian doctrine is not in keeping with that of the Church. It is a deliberate act of defiance against the Church one belongs to.

Islam may have borrowed this and that from other faiths, very much like other religions do as well, but unless someone can prove that Muhammad was ever a baptized Christian or belonged to any Christian Church or sect, he was not a heretic in the strict theological understanding of the term.

Exactly.

Greg

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: Mystic ]

Dear Greg,

You really do mystify, Friend!

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[QB]Dear Friends,

"Well, I think some of us Christians have a tendency to run all over Islam and that is not Christian. It is too easy to do this in today's atmosphere and since the U.S. and its Allies are at war with Muslims."

The irony is, all of the bad press and condemnation Islam has received since 9/11 has actually benefited the American Islamic communities, from orthodox to conservative to liberal to sectarian.

People, who are spiritual vagabonds and seekers, have had their curiosity aroused by the demonization of this exotic, but universal monotheistic faith. So, they inquire and study and observe, and many of them eventually enter our communities; 38,000 Americans did just that between 9/11 and February. I am not sure what the statistics are since that date.

So! The more "bad press" and demonization of our various Islamic cultures, the better, since these seem to be our most effective missionary tactics.

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

Dear Abdur,

That is why I am so nice to my Muslim friends!

Salaam Alekum!

Alex

Technically we cannot call Islam a heresy. But from what I understand it was based on the Arian heresy, which denied the divinity of Christ. Also many of the customs of Islam are directly taken from Eastern Orthodoxy. The Arians were ripe for conversion to a new religion. They had the learning, the scholars and I suppose the dollars.

Yours in Christ,
Fr Serafim

Abdur,

You said, "Certainly, Islam and Judaism have much more in common with one another than either Islam or Judaism has with Christianity."

That is simply FALSE! Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Islam is only based upon a heresy of a man (mohammed (may God judge him)). Islam is in no way similar to Judaism.

It is obvious you do not know much about Christianity.

Now...now...let's not be too nice.

We certainly don"t want to spoil a good thing! :rolleyes:

Salaam and good luck, Professor Roman!

Abdur

[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

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Islam and Judaism

Akbar S. Ahmed, celebrates the Jewish contribution to humanity and the shared core belief in the one omnipotent, universal God.

American incursions into Iraq mean that once again Muslims and Jews, and not only in the Middle East, will be on opposite sides. Yet when I, as a Muslim, contemplate the Jewish contribution to humanity in history,
I feel awe and pride.

Awe because of the scale of the contribution -some of the most influential shapers of our world have Jewish associations, like Marx, Freud and Einstein. And pride because I am aware that there are traditional and mythological connections between Islam and Judaism. Both go back to the core of belief - to the idea of one omnipotent, universal God, faith in the meritoriousness of good works and justice, and a keen love for the Prophets, social stability, civic righteousness and personal morality.
Of course, both Judaism and Islam deny the incarnation of deity, a common belief that separates Jews and Muslims from Christians and Hindus.

This remarkable harmony and symbiosis, recorded in our shared history and beliefs,is often overlooked because of the current confrontation in the Middle East, and it is well for scholars and leaders to look back to the synthesis there once was in Spain. The Encyclopaedia Britannica notes the "almost boundless toleration" of the Muslims:
"In Spain there came about a remarkable revival. The Jews knew no restrictions upon their activities... the Arab invasion brought salvation." Muslim Spain, at its best, was a culture of religious and cultural tolerance, of libraries and literature and parks.

Several times, when Muslims took Jerusalem from Christians, one of their first acts was to allow Jews back to the city: Hazrat Umar, one of the greatest names of Islam, who reconquered Jerusalem, permitted the Jews to return to the city. I was not surprised to learn that a great Muslim hero, Salahuddin, had as a senior advisor Maimonides, the great Jewish scholar.

In sharp contrast is anti-Semitism in Europe, where Christians widely believed that Jews were Christ-killers; they had betrayed Christ and so had to be punished. Crusaders against the Muslims often began their journey in Europe by slaughtering Jews. Hitler's Glaubenskrieg, the war against Jews, was the culmination, the inexorable conclusion, of a millennium of anti-Semitism. It has become the symbol of evil, and the Holocaust one of the darkest stains on human conscience.

Let us constantly remind ourselves that anti-Semitism is far from dead in Europe. As a Muslim, I note that whenever there is Islamophobia or hatred against Muslims, the signs of anti-Semitism are not far behind. We need to point out that the roots of prejudice among Muslims against the Jewish people are complex and originate from different sources.

Prejudice can be religious, ie anti-Judaic; it can be racist, ie anti-Semitic; and it can be political, ie anti-Zionist. Prejudice may combine all three, but one prejudice does not automatically assume the other two. There may be those who oppose the political ideas of Zionism, but are not either anti-Judaic or anti-Semitic.

The success of Zionism in creating Israel complicates matters for Muslims. Loss of land for the Palestinians and the loss of Jerusalem are viewed with injustice and anger among Muslims. In the rhetoric of confrontation, many themselves blur the distinction between anti-Judaism, anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. Such Muslims make the mistake they accuse others of making about themselves: seeing all Jews as monolithic and threatening.

It would be foolish, though, to deny that unless Muslims feel that genuine tolerance and compassion are shown to the Palestinian people, unless the right of Muslims to the holy city of Jerusalem is acknowledged, and unless media hostility is checked, there will be no end to the confrontation between religions and nations. The people of the Book - Muslims, Jews and Christians - need to find a way of living peacefully together. If we cannot think in terms of our common noble religions, let us think in terms of our common cultural heritage as representing the ideal.

Only a few months ago I had a grandson. He was named Ibrahim after the great Muslim prophet, who is also the great Jewish and Christian patriarch. Ibrahim inherits a legacy of several millennia. He will not be denied his heritage. I would like him to see the Jews and Christians as kin, People of the Book. I would also like him to visit and pray in Jerusalem, with peace in his heart. For me, from Adam in the mists of time to Ibrahim, my grandson, there is a span of human history which both incorporates the great religions of the world and provides hope and optimism for the future.

Dr. Akbar Ahmed, Fellow, Selwyn College, Cambridge, was the first Muslim asked by the Liberal and Progressive Synagogues to deliver the Rabbi Dr David Goldstein Memorial Lecture. His book, A Short Introduction to Islam, was published in February 1999.

Source: The Guardian (London)

Saturday, January 16, 1999
After Cambridge, Professor Ahmed served as the Pakistani ambassador to London.� He is currently the Ibn Khaldun Chair and Professor of Islamic Studies, at the School of International Services, American University, Washington, D.C.
Read more articles by Professor Ahmed here.
�
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[ 04-16-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]