www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Liturgical changes in the byzantine rite?

I'm new to the forum. Let me quickly give my background. I grew up in a family that rejected the Novus Ordo mass and changes of Vatican II. My parents attended the Ukrainain byzantine mass until they found the traditional pre-Vatican II Latin mass which we have attended ever since.

I just spent a year teaching English in Warsaw, Poland and there I attended the Ukrainian byzantine mass. It was a beautiful and enriching experience for me, especially the beauty and solemnity of the ceremonies and the singing throughout the course of the mass. I feel a lot closer to this liturgy than the Latin liturgy now.

My question is, have there been liturgical and/or doctrinal changes to the byzantine rite since the '60s or is it roughly the same as it has been throughout history? I understand that in the U.S. modern Ukrainian has been substituted for the old Slavonic, is that true?

Many people mistakenly think that the old Latin mass is adhered to simply out of nostalgia or keeping "the old ways." Many don't realize that the Novus Ordo mass is a complete overhaul and bears little resemblence to the Tridentine mass. Doctrinally it presents many very serious questions and problems to "traditionalists."

I don't want to get into a debate about the rights or wrongs of Traditionalist Catholics here. I just really want to know about the integrity and historicity of the byzantine rite.

Thank you so much. Respectfully,
Andrew

Andrew,

To answer your question as simply as possible, I'd have to say there've been no changes in the Divine Liturgy of the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Now, Eastern traditions, which were abandoned for various reasons by many of the Eastern Catholic Churches decades ago, have since been largely reclaimed after Vatican II basically told the Eastern Catholic Churches to "go East." This might make a difference in the overall worship from the 1960s to now, depending on the parish.

And yes, the Novus Ordo does cause many problems. Many people appropriately call it the "Novus Disordo." Oh well, I can't talk since my parish is a Novus Ordo parish.

Logos Teen

I'd suggest not raising the issue, then - especially not in a way that begs for response.

Andrzejek:

You're not alone in the way you feel. See my
3 replies under the thread:

"How do you deal with Traditionalists ?

in "Faith & Worship".

Antonius

Andrew,

Welcome to the Forum. The short answer to your question is 'yes' and 'no'

Since Vatican II, the Byzantine Churches and our sister Churches of the other Eastern Rites have been working to restore the purity and authenticity of our liturgical practices. Over the centuries, through a variety of circumstances, many of these had been heavily latinized - particularly in the diaspora. The extent to which this renewal/restoration has been accomplished still varies considerably from Church to Church - from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a given Church - and sometimes even from parish to parish within a given jurisdiction.

You asked about language changes and from the tenor of your concern with the changes in the Latin Church, I suspect that you would not necessarily consider that a positive thing. I think it's important to remember that, to an extent that was not historically as true of the Latin Church, the heritage of the East has been to serve its liturgies in the vernacular - which means that today my Church, historically of Arabic ethnicity, serves the Divine Liturgy in (at least) English, French, Spanish, and Portuguese, as well as in Arabic.

Many years,

Neil

Thanks to those that have replied. Neil, you said essentially that the Byzantine church has been working to get back to a more authentic representation of the liturgy. Have there been any changes in the prayers or are the changes more cosmetic?

Those who worked on the Novus Ordo mass claimed they were trying to get back to the authentic expression of the mass and rid it of the accretions of centuries (as if the changes over the centuries weren't "authentic" as well!). But the problem is many of the prayers were changed and the Canon was changed (up to and including the words of Christ at the consecration, leading many to believe that it is invalid). There is a saying, "lex orandi, lex credendi" which means that what you pray is what you believe. The Novus Ordo mass has been shorn of many many prayers and others rewritten to make them "watered down" so to speak.

So this is my biggest concern and the reason I posted this thread. My question is if the changes in the Byzantine rites are simply matters of "cosmetic" changes and not wholesale makeovers.

Can anyone refer me to a source to find more information about this? Thanks.

"Many people appropriately call it the "Novus Disordo." "

How about Novus Weirdo? *impish grin*

On the specific matter of liturgical languages in the Byzantine Liturgy, I would refer you to Fr Cyril Korolevsky's book *Living Languages in Catholic Worship*, published by Newman Press in the mid-fifties. While the original language of the Byzantine Liturgy is, of course, Greek, neither Greek nor anything else has been "the" Byzantine liturgical language for the past thousand years or so.
There are a variety of usages in the different Local Churches which follow the Byzantine liturgical traditions, but if one examines the text(s) carefully, one finds that these local variations are not of great importance. However, this can be harder than it might appear, because different groups have published English translations of the same texts but based their several translations on different principles.
Liturgically speaking, the Byzantine liturgical tradition was never subjected to the Tridentine Reform (bet you weren't expecting that expression!), so that even in Church-Slavonic one finds several different recensions - the pre-Niconian texts, the Old Kievan texts, the Niconian texts, the Serbian texts, etc. etc. Here again, the differences can be of serious interest but are not so substantive as to affect the essence of the Liturgy. If you're interested, let me know and I'll gladly put you on to more materials.
Music: here there is a fairly wide variety, and there are specialists who will dispute matters of liturgical music (the dispute sometimes becomes heated). For the moment, there are three phenomena to be aware of: authentic chant (corresponding to monastic chant in the West), popular chant (a phenomenon which is virtually non-existent in the West, though one might compare it to Mass VIII Gregorian), and harmonized choral music. In general the Divine Liturgy and other services are sung a capella, though (I regret to tell you that) one can occasionally find organs (usually of most inferior quality, which is another reason to avoid them).
Hope that keeps you going for a while. Further questions are welcome!
Incognitus

How about "The Holy and Divine Liturgy according to the Rite of the Latin Church prescribed by His Holiness Paul VI, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ and Servant of the Servants of God"?

I do not like it when people insult the Mass that I love and with which I worship Our Lord God.

Shalom,
Memo.

Memo,

Well said! (From a Byzantine sojourning in a Latin parish.) The Mass of the Roman Rite has its own beauty. Sure, there are problems here and there (but thankfully not here in Southern Oregon) but it can be a beautiful Liturgy.

Andrzejek, I would recommend works by Archimandrite Robert Taft, John Meyendorff, Alexander Schmemann and Nicholas Usspensky specifically regarding the liturgical development of the Byzantine tradition. Also Hugh Wybrew's book on the Byzantine Liturgy takes a historical "snapshot" sort of approach of looking at Byzantine liturgical development throughout different periods based on extant texts and commentaries.

Slava Isusu Christu!

As an Byzantine Catholic I can see nothing more repugnant than to critique the liturgy of another Ritual Church. It is not desirable that we should criticize the decisions not only of a Synod of a particular Church (Vatican II), but also of a Patriarch of that Church (Pope Paul VI).
I will stick to weeding out the nefarious poison in my own heart rather than to critique a source of sanctity for million of Catholics (the Pauline Mass). Latin Catholics have a wonderfully modest and simple liturgy that is very pastoral and open to the genius of the times. We have a liturgy that is at once very static and yet shows a greater continuity with past generations of Christians of the Eastern tradition. There is *much* to be received in both.

Let us love one another that with all our heart we may confess: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: One in Essense and Undivided.

Amin.

In Christ,

Robert

Oh dear. I didn't mean to give anyone the impression that I'm a candidate for admission into the SSPX or SSPV or something... I'm in love with the Novus Ordo. The Tridentine Mass is not for everyone. A Latin Novus Ordo is not for everyone, either. And yes, I firmly believe Vernacular liturgies are just as beautiful as the Latin liturgy.

BUT, if we're going to have a vernacular liturgy, at least let's try to keep the translation faithful to the original text. The current ICEL translations are, in a word, weird. While they are not a radical departure from the Latin text, they do water down the richness of the Novus Ordo. I think that this weak text is the cause of many of the abuses so prevalent in the Church today. There seems to be very little that is sacred about the English Novus Ordo, even though the actual text of the Mass is quite beautiful. Comapnies like GIA and OCP have destroyed parish music programs with their filth, written mostly by non-Catholics, and this further degrades the otherwise beautiful Novus Ordo. In spite of all this, many bishops -such as mine- are completely silent. They sit back and allow liturgical dancers to dance around their altars, organs and pianos to be removed in favor of platforms for drums and rock bands, they do not allow us to genuflect before receiving Our Lord, we are not allowed to kneel after communion any longer (or even during the Canon for that matter), I am told that my musical training is no longer needed and that guitar brandishing middleschoolers must provide music for the liturgy, we are told "no member of the assembly is greater than the other, and no one function is greater than the other." Uh... what ever happened to the priest acting In Persona Christi???

And yet, the Novus Ordo in its ideal form is a very beautiful and reverent liturgy. I have been to several that have been conducted with faith, reverence, and the fear of God, but sadly many more that have not. Our bishops are fighting the Vox Clara commission's efforts to provide a faithful English translation of the Mass and non-Catholic publishing companies are trying to control the sacred music market. There is great beauty in the Novus Ordo, yet so many barriers are being erected in what I think is a blatant attempt to obscure that beauty. Hence I think it can rightly be called the Novus Weirdo. It's a beautiful liturgy, but it seems that nobody wants it to be that way.

Slava Isusu Christu!

A spiritual director of mine once said: "If your conscience is crucified by scandal: then avoid scandal." No one is obligated to go against his or her conscience. If you cannot attend your parish liturgy for conscience's sake then don't. Either find another Church, or do what many Christians throughout the ages have done: have services at home. As a Latin Catholic have liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of Hours at home or move. The worst thing you can do is to raise doubt in the weaker bretheren. This issue has been "beat like a dead horse." I suggest bury the horse and get a new one.

On a lighter note I read some of your live journal; it was typical neo-conservative angst. I was very fascinated by it and yet empathize to some extent. In my younger years, I am now 27, I was very disgruntled and upset by the "changes" or any change or that things had changed to much, or even that they changed before I could do anything about it (whatever that means). I predict you will change "Rites" (hehe), become Byzantine or maybe Melkite, then go OCA, then go ROAC and then go Coptic and then become an Orthodox Jew (see: Chabad-Lubavitch), hehe. See Catholics, of whatever Ritual Church, can have fun can't we

I heard flying pigs are in season as well.

In Christ,

Robert Horvath

Slava Isusu Christu!

Good luck on your journey.

In Christ,

Robert

Live Journal:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rusyn/