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I am a latin Catholic who likes to use the prayer before communion that has the phrase

"for I will not reveal Your mystery to Your enemies, nor will I give You a kiss as did Judas, but like the thief, I confess you..."

My question concerns not revealing Your mystery to Your enemies. It seems like in modern days all people who are not Catholic or Orthodox have a general understanding on what we believe the Eucharist to be. Or if not, they could easily find out. Surely even with the most strictest definition of enemies, this prayer no longer seems to be fullfilled. What if someone asks me about the Eucharist who probably might be considered an "enemy".

I am not sure exactly what I am asking but I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks

Devo

Devo, oddly, enough, they don't. Understand, that is. A Ukrainian priest was telling me Sunday about a Methodist website he saw where the pastoral message was on the nature of the Eucharist, and that the pastor himself was debatining it, inconclusively, he added. So, without knowing WHAT it was...

But I digress. In the early days of the Church, of course, Christians were accused of cannibalism, etc, for drinking and eating the Body and Blood of Christ. Also, revealing the Mysteries to enemies or adversaries meant death to all those partaking before Christianity was legal. It is less a prayer than a solemn vow before the Lord that never will you betray His Church to those who seek to destroy the Church. Though the nature of that destruction has changed from that which Alex described in another thread...we hopefully aren't going to be dipped in pitch and used as human torches anymore...the Church is vunerable to attack from more insideous means...read the newspapers or see my above comment for more thoughts.

Enemies of the Church can most certainly access information, as you pointed out, but the issue is betrayal, not informative teaching, given in love to correct heresy. In any event, deciding which prayers are "relevant" in today's society is the way one ends up not understanding the whole...if parts are discarded here, then later someone else discards a bit, then someone ELSE discards a bit...in a while, no one recognizes the original, and you end up with chaos, and confusion. The evil one then triumphs.

Gaudior, hoping that made sense

Thanks you,

That does help.

Devo

Dear Devo and Gaudio,

(Is that short for "DEVOtio Moderna?" ).

That is surely a most fascinating question!

Certainly there is the idea contained in that phrase that the Mysteries of the Christian religion were to be guarded, as in the days of Christian persecution.

But they were to be guarded even MORE against, not the overt enemies of the Church, but against those who were interested in becoming Christians, like the Catechumens, but whose enlightenment by Grace was not yet complete (ie. were not baptized or chrismated) so that they could easily fall into "prelest" about the meaning of the Mystery of the Eucharist.

By this means, the Church guarded against the notion that the Eucharistic mystery could be understood with the mind unaided by Divine Grace and Communion with the Church.

Only those whose minds have been so graced may fully understand theology and the theology and meaning of the Mystery of the Eucharist.

This is why the Orthodox Church does not allow inter-communion. Even though someone, like an RC or BC, has a common theology of the Eucharist in terms of WHAT it is, the lack of full ecclesial communion prevents such inter-communion because that understanding has been darkened by the rupture in the life of Grace that comes from full communion with the (in this case, Orthodox) Church.

To try and reveal the sacred Mystery of the Eucharist to an "enemy" means to commit the sacrilege of attempting to get someone, out of communion with the Church to understand its full meaning despite the rupture of the life of Grace that is only to be found in communion with the Church.

That would truly be like giving Christ a kiss like Judas, the appearance of being in the Life of Christ while being outside the life of the communion of His Body that is the Church.

Alex

So how much information is a person allowed to reveal about the Eucharist to someone not in communion with his Church. And when should a convert be taught the full mystery of the Eucharist? For example what would be the difference between a Methodist friend asking out of curosity about the Holy Sacrament/Mystery or what about a Methodist who is more than curious and is thinking about joining the Church.

This is a very interesting topic!

Dear Devo,

(Are you sure you are not a "diva?" )

This truly is an interesting topic!

Actually, the "head knowledge" about the Eucharist is present everywhere and in many bookstores for all to read.

The "knowledge" involved here is not "head knowledge" at all, but the noetical understanding of faith through Communion with the Reality of the Body and Blood of Christ that only those in communion with the Church, His Body may have.

We in the East approach God slightly differently, although Rayk may disagree!

The West approaches God by seeing what evidence there is out there for His existence etc.

The East believes that if it is in us to have faith, then it is not because there is evidence out there for us to observe and deduce God's existence - but that it is because God Himself has inspired faith in us in the first place.

We therefore embrace God first by way of Grace and this Grace is what continues to shape and form us in the Life of Christ.

The RC position on inter-communion is that those who are Orthodox or who have the same faith in the Eucharist as the RC Church may, under certain conditions, approach the Eucharist at a RC Mass.

That would be unthinkable in the Orthodox East where fullness of ecclesial Communion is a condition for participation in the Eucharist. Without that participation, the person's life of Grace is disturbed, rendering full participation in the Eucharist a lie and therefore an occasion for further distancing from the life of Grace.

You can always count on me to explain things straightforwardly . . .

Alex

My name was given to me by my friends and well it stuck. I guess it is from the singer Devo!

I can understand that full understanding of the mystery is impossible without the fullness of communion with the Mystical Body (The Church). But then how would someone be able to reveal the noetical understanding then as said in the prayer.

I will adventually learn something!

Thanks again