www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Wantiing to purchase copy of liturgy....

Can anyone help me out?

I would love to purchase a copy of the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (with both an English and Old Slavonic translation if possible).

I remember my home church had them. It included songs for all of the Feast Days in English and Slavonic too (I'm still racking my brain to remember the Slavonic of Nebo i Zemla).

Since my closest Byzantine church is more than 3 hours away, I'd like to have a copy at home. This way I can teach my sons for when we do have an opportunity to attend.

Thanks bunches!

If you want a parallel text of the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom in English and Church-Slavonic, write the bookstore, Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, New York - and you could do worse than to direct your inquiry to Father Laurence. He printed such a book a number of years ago, and very useful it is. HOWEVER, in this instance Church-Slavonic means precisely that; if you can't read the Church-Slavonic alphabet that side of the page will do you no good at all.
Then there is *Christ With Us*, available from Eastern Christian Publications - that rather nice book has the Divine Liturgy in both languages; the Church-Slavonic side of the page has the Slavonic text both in the modern Ukrainian alphabet and in Latin-alphabet phonetics.
Rumor has it that a project is in the works to publish the Divine Liturgy in parallel English and Church-Slavonic with the Church-Slavonic text in the Latin alphabet, using the sort of phonetics that most US Ruthenians are vaguely familiar with.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear Incognitus,

Would that be the phonetics for the Ukrainian pronunciation, please, or still OCS pronunciation?

Gaudior, wondering

WOW! That's a website I have not yet seen! How did I miss that one??

Thank you for mentioning Eastern Christian Publications [ecpubs.com] . I already see many, many books that I want to order!

Hi everyone!

Thanks for the info.

The book used in my church back home had the slavonic words using the latin alphabet. No publications in the church had any cyrillic at all. I'm really curious now as to where they got it from.

I'll check out that Eastern Christian Publications website too.

Thanks again everyone!
Beth

The phonetics in question are for the Church-Slavonic words as a Ukrainian speaker would pronounced them - which does not differ drastically from the pronunciation used in the Pittsburgh Metropolia (note that I am carefully avoiding any national/ethnic term to designate the large majority of adherents to the Pittsburgh Metropolia, each and all of whom are welcome to call themselves what they please). Suggestion - obtain a full-sized copy of the book; the pocket-size version requires a magnifying glass.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

Dear-in-Christ Sahm,

In the Ruthenian Church (meaning descending from the Union of U�horod) the Latin Alphabet transcribing of Church Slavonic is done according to Slovak conventions. In other words, it is written phonetically in Slovak.

Hence the "Our Father" is "Otče na�, i�e jesi na nebesich...." I do not consider that "phonetic" for American English-speakers. I would consider phonetic for American English-speakers "Otche nash, ishe yesi na nebesikh...." Of course one would have to make clear the qualities of vowels, etc, for people who are unsure how the language should sound.

A Muscovite, a sub-Carpathian Rusyn and a Bulgarian would all pronounce the same thing written in Church Slavonic Cyrillic characters slightly differently. Juse two examples: the letter Г which sounds like an H in Rusyn and Ukrainian pronunciation and a G in others, the other is the "yat'" which cannot be reproduced on this keyboard. It is rendered -'i- by Ruthenians and -e- by most others. Hence the difference between D'ivo and Devo.

The last time I was at the Atlanta Ruthenian parish they had "pew books" for sale at the book table. That would probably be what you are looking for.

Tony

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Many thanks, Dear Incognitus!

You have solved a mystery! A person I know is in search of just this thing, and many were at a loss to know where to direct her! Even Ukrainian priests shrugged helplessly...

New idea: Incognitus is the editor-in-chief of "Really Useful Liturgical Trivia Magazine"

Gaudior, in the Risen Christ!

Tony or anyone else, is there a link to a website that could help teach me the proper pronounciations (or close enough to pass in liturgy if I mumble ) for when we sing "Many Years" (my newest favorite song/prayer)!

When I asked a parishoner for a suggestion for a small phonetically translated dual Liturgy Book (Ruthian Church), she provided me with one that is written like your "Our Father" example and told me that is the phonetic version. Rather than giving the appearance of stupidity, which I am sure I have just confirmed to all on this board, I thanked her and took the Liturgy book home. Any assistance to this challenge would be greatly appreciated!

Christ is Risen!
Indeed, He is Risen!!

Michael

I don't know if these are really good resources but I just found these websites for a start:

Introduction to Slovak Language [slovak.com]
and
Slovak Language [knowledgerush.com]

Tony (and others) are correct. I would recommend that you learn the standard usage for writing Church Slavonic by American Ruthenians. It�s really not all that difficult (unless you are in an all-English parish!). I recommend learning by example. Holy Ghost Choir in Philadelphia has some excellent recordings of the Divine Liturgy in Church Slavonic that can be used as a tool to learn the pronunciation of Church Slavonic. My favorite is �Divine Liturgy in Old Slavonic - Byzantine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom�.

The website for Holy Ghost Parish is: https://www.byzcath.org/~holyghostph/

Sahm,

Pardon my haste in my previous reply, I made a mistake in my phonetic rendering is should be izhe not ishe.

Tony

And to all the ones who have the Great-Martyr George as their heavenly patron: Many Years!

Christ is Risen!
Indeed, He is Risen!

To Admin, Reznut and Tony,
Thank you for your assistance. Reznut, the links provided me with the exact information that I desire. I plan to spend tomorrow learning all afternoon and evening. Mr. Admin, thank you also for the link for the CD of the Divine Liturgy in Slovanic. I plan to order it and listen to it every evening on the way home from work. (Morning trip is morning prayers ) Only place to relax after getting everyone ready for school and feeding the critters. Tony, thank you for brining up this topic that I was afraid to approach for fear of ignorance.

I ask that God send his blessings to all of you.

Michael (a sinner who will be a singing!)

Thank you

those who know more than I do (a very large category, we will all agree!) tell me that the correct one-word term for "liturgical trivia" is "liturgicalia".
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

YAAY!! And I'm excited because I just spent some time browsing them and think that they will be very useful for me, too! Thank you for asking for links because that got me to dig a wee bit and find those!

Your sister in Christ, Michelle