www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why homosexual priests?

Kristos Voskrese,

I agree, Psalm 51, with you that the two issues of homosexual priests and pedophile priests has become too mixed. These are two seperate issues and have little to do with each other in my view.

Dmitri

Laus,

"Or, those who simply and without compromise condemn all homosexual acts as gravely sinful and contrary to the teaching of Christ and his Church? I believe the latter is Dan's belief"

You are correct.

Dan Lauffer

Moe,

"In Dan's case I think it goes way beyond just believing that homosexual behavior is morally wrong. I don't see him getting as upset over other moral failures. Why single out the homosexuals for moral condemnation? I don't recall Jesus ever doing so, but He did have plenty to say about judging others. If you think it this is sinful behavior then love them and pray for them...don't condemn. That is what it means to be a Christian. Leave the judging and condemnation to God.
Moe"

You have JUDGED AND CONDEMNED wrongly. I suspect, though I don't judge, you knew this before you typed your judgement of me.

Dan Lauffer

Dmitri,

"These are two separate issues...."

Absolutely. But BOTH are problems. And BOTH need to be addressed.

Dmitri,

I heard this distinction made many times. Can you demonstrate with scientific evidence how they are to be distinguished? That is, how does one know if they haven't acted?

"Kristos Voskrese,
Be careful not to confuse the act with the state of being. These are two seperate issues and one does not necessarily imply the other.

Dmitri"

In any event the only thing the Church really ever cared upon is the the man or woman "lying down with" persons of the same sex. As I've posted several times I don't care, and I suspect everyone knows this, whether a person thinks he is a martian or a heterosexual or a homosexual. We all have fantasies. Have you lusted after another and have you acted upon it. Both are condemned.

Most, if not all, of the objections to my position are tired old canards. I doubt that the homosexualist advocates have anything else to offer but they are red herrings completely without merit.

Dan Lauffer

David,

"But those who label themselves as homosexuals do not think the act is wrong. They wish to promote their "life style" and have the rest of use accept it.

The persons who suffer from homosexual tendencies that admit that these tendencies are disordered and to act upon them a sin, are not out there promoting homosexuality."

Of course you are right, brother. These tired old self justifications for homosexual actions are so transparently self centered, worldly, and non-Christian as to be completely shameful. It makes me ashamed to be associated with people who call themselves Christians and claim that having intercourse with someone of the same sex is a good thing to do.

Shame on you who do this!!

If, as David has pointed out, you are weary of this aberrent drive I will join you in prayer and do everything I know to help you become free in Christ.

Dan Lauffer

Lance,

I agree with your post and especially this point.

"Why are the bishops that allowed the predators to continue to prey being let off the hook? I don't think every bishop who made the mistake of believing a man was rehabilitated should be removed, but those that ignored the obvious and played chess with these men are guilty of gross negligence and have no business remaining in charge of a diocese or voting for the next Bishop of Rome."

Perhaps a negligent bishop belongs in jail as much as the pedophiles he supported. I know that many of the victims would agree.

Dan Lauffer

Friends,

I intend this to be my last post on this thread.

Since no one has ventured an answer to my question I think I will offer some possibilities of my own.

My why really has two parts: 1. Why do young men who know that homosexual activity is condemned by all of Church tradition go into the priesthood and act out their fantasies?

I suppose it has very much to do with the prevailing mindset of the world. Rebellion. I can do it and get away with it, at least in this life. It is risky behavior and it gets ones adreniline going.

I don't see any reason why a priest who is committed to holiness and to serving the Church so that people who wish to be holy might have an example of holiness would ever act in such a way. They ruin their witness. They rebell against God. They rob people of an example of holiness.

It is clear that people do this. But how could anyone sell out themselves and their Church and their Lord?

2. Why do bishops ordain and protect persons who act out their homosexual fantasies?

I believe it is for the same reason that some priests act out theirs. They can do it and thus far they have gotten away with it.

I can see no reason why a bishop should be ever recognized as a bishop by anyone who would allow these things to go on.

Lest there be any confusion. This is a thread on homosexual acts. The principle applies to any ongoing unrepented sin.

Ther principle is not difficult to understand. All one needs to do is read Matthew 18, the entire chapter.

If you are participating in such sins and especially if you are in seminary or are a priest now I pray that the Holy Spirit will convict you of your sin and that you will repent, for your sake and for the sake of all of the people who look up to you.

Dan Lauffer

Since Dan has made his last post on this issue, I will make mine also and be done with this thread.

Dan and I have a charitable difference in our views as to homosexual behavior. But that was not the topic that was introduced, the topic was homosexual priests. Dan seems to know alot more sexually active gay priests than I know. I find it difficult to accept that a measurable number of sexual active gay priests have told him of their activites or that he was personally witnessed priests have sex with men.

I would guess however, that people he finds reputable, I would guess seminiarians or priestly aspirants have passed this on to him or it has been based on writings of others. And while that is a legitimate basis to begin to form a opinion, one must also consider another factor, commonly overlooked.

I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience that Vocation Directors have turned down candidates for the reason they were considered not emotionally stable enough for the priesthood while the same Vocation Directors report that onced turned down they became embittered because of the perception that others who were accepted are gay. Further that the Vocation Directors found their bitterness based on a perception that they "took a fag but not me".

I think this is understandable particularly considering that even with the current shortage of Catholic candidates for the priesthood, over half of all applicants are turned down.

Next year, I would like to do a thread on Christianity and homosexuality in general without focusing on the priesthood. But I would agree with Dan that we have exhausted this topic.

Love to all.

Axios

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Since Dan initiated this thread, and now has posted his final post, perhaps we should make it the last word?

I feel that the issue has been well discussed, and a number of good points have been made.

Of course, anyone is free to initiate another new thread on this or any topic!

Thanks!

Elias