www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News MP Metropolitan Discourages Veneration

Are there any photos online of the new church in Kiev? Thanks!

In Christ,
Anthony

Here you go Anthony, although these are computer previews not actual pictures.

Outside:
http://www.kyivpatriarchalsobor.org/eng/

Inside:
http://www.kyivpatriarchalsobor.org/enter/

What a surprise - Russophobia rears its head... It seems that several memebers seem to thrive on continuing carping of the MP and the Church in Ukraine. Whilst we may disagree on some things, the Administrator has shown remarkable equality in his comment.If people disagree about the Turin Shroud within the Catholic Church, then the aforementioned bishop or any bishop, has the right to warn off the faithful...and I don't think that "kiss my a**" comment is particularly worthy either...

Anton

Dear Ukie Friends:

Since no full-blooded Ukie has responded to the inquiry of Dr. John, the Greek, on what's "Nuts!!!" in Ukrainian, I, a recently adopted Ukie under the patronage of Alex, the Ukrainian OrthodoxCatholic, would say "Nuts!!!" in Ukrainian: "Nyuts!!!"

Amado

Dear Anton,
You wanna talk about phobias?
Do you honestly think that this metropolitan didn't give his blessing to his faithful to venerate the Turin Shroud because he's in doubt of its authenticity? You must be pulling my leg.
The UKrainian Catholics or even the Orthodox of the Kyivan Patriarchate or the UAOC could come up with any other relic of a saint or what have you, and I bet they won't participate. Now I ask you who's afraid of who?
And I will continue carping the MPs as you say, if they continue with their imperialistic policy over my church and the Ukrainian people. Call me a carpenter if you like.
Lauro

Anton, I think that comment was the result of decades worth of Ukrainian frustration, not just because of this one incident with the Shroud. Not that it was Christian at all, but it was human.

In Jesus and Mary,
LatinTrad

Dear Friends,

Yes, Russophobia upsets me too .

But the Russian bishop's refusal to honour the copy of the Shroud is not a statement of denial as to the original Shroud's authenticity - in fact, Orthodox parishes in the region have been receiving large copies of the Shroud for their liturgical use and some of these have come as gifts from Roman Catholics.

He obviously sees that copy as the property of those that are excommunicated from canonical Orthodoxy ("filaretites, autocephalists and uniates" according to one statement I've seen).

It's more church politics than anything else occasioned by the current heated situation of inter-church battles and struggle that is commonplace over there right now - and for the last few hundred years.

It is also clear that the Ukrainian government doesn't see the UOC-MP as a foreign church, but actually does favour it over any other church. Only this church was invited to bless the Ukrainian soldiers going to Iraq as peace-keepers with icons and crosses.

And ultimately, this was a matter of participating in prayer with those the Orthodox Church considers schismatics - and it would never give its blessing to do so.

(a refreshed) Alex

Dear LatinTrad,

There is never any justification for using such bad language.

I am well acquainted with Ukrainian frustration too!

But we Ukies are so divided amongst ourselves that I often think we are our own worst enemies.

For me, that is the most frustrating thing about being a Ukie in the 21st century (or do most of us even know we're in it already? ).

And if you Latins would have left us alone in the 16th century with the Unia and all that, well, that would have kept the frustration level at a more tolerable level too!

Have a great day!

Alex

AMDG

WHOA!! Alex is back in force!!!



"Christ intended His Church to be one, not many" --Unam Sanctam

"I came not to bring peace but the sword." --Jesus


Alex, Christ has always been a divisive force. Although it may have divided the Ukraine, I think the goal of the Unias was really to reunite the Ukraine with the Mystical Body of Christ. (No offense intended to anybody)

Are there a lot of UGCC people who dislike Brest-Litovsk? I am surprised to learn this.

Happy camping!

In Jesus and Mary,

LatinTrad

Dear Latin Trad,

Yes, I feel like posting a bit today, you have a problem with that?

And it is "Ukraine" not "the Ukraine" FYI.

So you think the Orthodox Church is NOT part of the Mystical Body of Christ?

The Unia as a model of church unity has been repudiated by your Latin theologians who can't seem to stop making "mea culpas" for them.

And we Ukies do have critical things to say about the Unia - very much like the New Catholic Encyclopaedia does.

It did divide us and weaken us nationally.

Dominus Vobiscum!

Alex

Offense taken. It is very poor Catholic theology to even suggest that the Orthodox Church is not the Mystical Body of Christ, especially when Pope John Paul II has taught that even the word �schism� is too strong to describe the separation.

LT, Please at least make an attempt to be respectful of us Eastern Christians.

AMDG

Et cum spiritu tuo.

Be patient with me, I am learning.

LatinTrad

PS I didn't think anything I said was disrespectful, but I apologize. I am always a poor judge of such things.

LatinTrad

Dear Latin Trad,

Did you see how quickly the Administrator jumped on you for the above?

He must have developed radar for these things by now!

There always are some unstated taboos in any situation we are in, including forums, as you know . . .

Speaking for myself, I've learned about these taboos here:

1) Ruthenians are NOT Ukrainians;

2) Anyone can go to Jordanville ANY time they darn well feel like it;

3) If an Orthodox priest dresses you down, you better sit still and take it with a respectful nod;

4) We'd all be better off if we belonged to one, big inclusive Byzantine Catholic jurisdiction;

5) Don't get on Cantor Joe's nerves . . .

Other taboos that are more obvious here include:

1) EC's belong to Particular Churches, not Rites;

2) "Orthodox in communion with Rome" is the best title for us, notwithstanding what the Orthodox who aren't have to say about it;

3) We have the same theology et al. as the Orthodox save for some differences in our views on the papacy;

4) The Filioque is something that only Latins do;

5) Don't get on Cantor Joe Thur's nerves . . .

Sorry I didn't post this earlier . . .

Alex

Ukies actually agree on something

Alex is absolutely right, that this is entirely about interchurch politics, not about veneration or authenticity of the Shroud. The tradition of the Obraz is well developed amongst both Russians and Ukrainians. The actions of Metropolitan Ilarion may very well be as much if not more of a statement against Filaret and the KP as the Ukrainian Catholics.

I'm not sure I completely agree with your comment on the Ukie government, Alex. Viktor Yushchenko is a vocal and public supporter of the KP, a possible if not probable future candidate for President and his bloc has a fairly signficant following. I heard that KP priests were also being requested to perform some of the military blessings on request of individual army units.

Depending on Kuchma's future and Yushchenko's success, the KP/MP scale may tip a different direction.

I can't believe it, I made it through Alex's taboo list unscathed...