www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Church Slavonic liturgies in the Ruthenian Metroplolia...

Last time I was in Olyphant (which is a good few years ago when Fr Stephen Hrynuck was pastor), Ss Cyril and Methodius Church was called Greek-Catholic.

Michael writes that "I'm 34 years old and I am probably the last of the Mohicans in terms of experiencing a complete Slavonic liturgy growing up. I learned my prayers in Slavonic and still say my prayers in Slavonic."
Take heart. Several decades ago a friend of mine and I were convinced that WE were the last of the Mohicans where Church-Slavonic was concerned, and, lo and behold, a new generation of enthusiasts for that lovely language has appeared. But do get a copy of the English-language book on Church-Slavonic grammar from Jordanville; it's well worth having.
Then you too can have the fun of seeking out esoteric sources for Church-Slavonic books.
By the way "Caerularius" is an offensive term which Patriarch Michael did not use as part of his name. Better to avoid it.

Incognitus

Msgr. Stephen Hrynuck is still the pastor at SS. Cyril & Methodius and serves the Sunday Slavonic Divine Liturgy each week. The very Sunday after Pope Benedict XVI was enthroned I happened to be in Scranton and tuned into the radio broadcast of the Divine Liturgy from SS. Cyril & Methodius. I chuckled when I realized that the very first time I heard the new Holy Father prayed for, it was in Church Slavonic! And then the Church Slavonic Liturgy is followed immediately by an English language Divine Liturgy from St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral.

ISTM that one of the main reasons that no Church Slavonic is taken in many places is simply that fewer and fewer priests and cantors know it. I have worked with numerous new cantors over the years and very few have the time to learn to sing in Church Slavonic. The most effective method I have found to teach them is to give them an audio recording of the Slavonic so that they can play it at home or in the car and memorize it.

Although I believe that the majority of our Divine Services should be in English (since that is the language our country speaks and thinks in) the knowledge of Church Slavonic should not be allowed to be totally lost. The different parts of the Liturgy should be taken in Slavonic on a rotating basis so that the congregation can be familiar with it. The only position I disagree with is the one that suggests that English should never be used and should never become the predominant language of the Liturgy.

Dear Administrator,

My church stopped using Church Slavonic because we couldn't understand a lot of it . . .

Alex

I gather from the various posts that Slavonic is not used much in the Pittsburgh Metropolia then? Only in a few parishes?

Administrator - thanks for the information that Father Stephen Hrynuck is still pastor at Ss Cyril and Methodius; he's an outstandingly good priest and a man of great kindness as well as exquisitely good manners. Next time you're there, please give him my warmest greetings.

Incognitus

Monsignor Stephen Hrynuck is a saintly man.
We love him.
He is a "one of a kind" priest.

In Binghamton and Endicott, New York (Passaic Eparchy), we've celebrated with as much as 25% of the Divine Liturgy in Slavonic, and at least twice a month we sing SOMETHING in Church Slavonic (usually the Trisagion, Cherubicon and Our Father, occasionally the litanies), not counting Rusyn hymns before and after Liturgy, and at Communion. And of course on feasts (Pascha, Christmas, Theophany, etc.) we usually alternate English and Slavonic for the festal hymns, magnifications, tropars, etc.

It may not be Ung's standard of 75%, but it certainly isn't "suppression of all Slavonic" or "a denial of our heritage."

Jeff Mierzejewski
Cantor, Ss. Peter and Paul Byzantine Catholic Church
Endicott, New York

I am a fairly new cantor at a parish in eastern Pennsylvania, and sadly our priest has forbidden any Church Slavonic at the Sunday Liturgy. We had been singing a verse of an opening hymn, the Cherubicon in both English and Church Slavonic and alternating the Trisagion, and the Lord's Prayer in Church Slavonic. The result now seems to be less participation of the congregation. I fear something very special of our heritage is being lost.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am)...

I thought the Eastern Christian shtick was the use of vernacular language in the liturgy, as opposed to the use of Latin (until recently, anyway) in the Roman Catholic Church?

At the very least, I've heard this sentiment before from a number of Eastern Christians. That's why I don't understand the Greek Orthodox Church's refusal to use modern Greek in the liturgy, and why I don't understand the use of Church Slavonic in parishes where the majority of the faithful have no clue what's being said.

Naturally, the case is different for those parishes whose parishioners understand Slavonic.

Logos Teen

Dear Logos Teen,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Yes, the use of vernacular language has been a long tradition of Byzantine Churches.

�In Rome Pope Hadrian II, who had in the meantime succeeded Nicholas I, received them (the apostles of the Slavs, Saints Cyril and Methodius) very cordially. He approved the Slavonic liturgical books, which he ordered to be solemnly placed on the altar in the Church of Saint Mary ad Praesepe, today known as Saint Mary Major, and recommended that their followers be ordained priests�. - SLAVORUM APOSTOLI, Encyclical Epistle of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II to the bishops, priests and religious families, and to all the Christian Faithful, in commemoration ofthe Eleventh Centenary of the Evagelizing Work of Saints Cyril and Methodius.

This was in 866. Prior to that, the Gospel Book was only available in church languages: Greek, Latin or Hebrew.

Hope this helps,

Deacon El

Teen of the incarnate...
Like I said in my earlier post.
The non-movable, non-changing parts of the liturgy; thrice holy hymn, litanies.. could be done in Slavonic easily. They don't change, you know what they are by heart in English. Learning them in Slavonic isn't hard, ESPECIALLY when you know what they mean in English.

Now as far as the tropars, etc.. they change daily and using Slavonic for them would mean people actually HAD to know Slavonic.. if you know what I mean. They would have to know it well enough to be able to understand more than reciting Tebe Pojem from heart.

There is nothing wrong with having a little ocs sometimes, maybe the creed, or the our father, or the thrice holy hymn. They don't change, and it is simple memorization. No classes on conjugation of verbs, tenses, etc... Just memorization and pronounciation, which aren't that hard at all.

Hmm - been thinking about this language 'thing'

OK - this is all from my very very limited knowledge of things Eastern

Can we consider Lourdes please - the Church with which I am most familiar ?

Church - UGCC in France

Priest - Australian , English mother tongue

Whilst I was there in May I was at 4 Liturgies.

Liturgy is normally in Ukrainian

BUT he will use whatever language the congregation / Priests are used to using.

Hence First DL this year for me - during the Annual Military Pilgrimage [ RC and EC - Military from whole world ]

5 Priests Serving -- Languages used - English [ one priest English usage only ] Ukie and I think but not certain about this, OCS . Gospel in Ukie

2nd DL 2 Priests - Ukie and English - Gospel in English and Litanies split between English and Ukie. Words of Administration to me in English.

3rd DL - 1 Priest - mixture of Ukie and English

4th DL - 2 Priests - one able to use OCS only - so Liturgy mainly in OCS - Words of Administration to me in English - and I was given a copy of the Epistle and Gospel in English so I could read at the same time. As Father says - no matter how good your command of the language is you are more at home , and understand the nuances better , when the Epistle and Gospel are read/chanted , if it is in your Mother tongue.

Now Fr Peter is learning French - so that will also be used as soon as he is comfortable I am sure.

And just to add another bit of information - as well as English and Ukie he is also willing to use Gaelic [ of the Irish variety ] since he was given a copy of the Gaelic/ Ukie translation. This I understood caused consternation when a visitor from Dublin heard it one Sunday last year [ well she had met Father Peter and said she was from Dublin prior to the Sunday Liturgy

Anhelyna

I'm 38 and the last time I heard a completely slavonic liturgy was in the early '80s on bright monday. It was a kind of tradition in our parish.

I know some of it from memory and I can't see any reason not to have a little of it. Most of my parish in Lakewood Ohio is 60+. I don't think they would mind. That's why I've been going to a Ukrainian parish lately. Even though it's in Ukrainian, it has the feeling of slavonic. Our liturgy just seems to have a different feeling when it's sung in slavonic. Kind of makes me feel like I'm in Jakubany!!

The second Sunday Divine Liturgy at St Mary Byzantine Catholic Church in Hillsborough NJ is about two thirds Slavonic and one-third English. That Liturgy starts at 10:30 in the summer and 11 the rest of the year. The Slavonic choir is great, and the pastor is very comfortable with the language. All in all, it is a very uplifting experience, even though my Slavonic is limited to what is in the pew book, at best!

Now, now. Well before the time of Saints Cyril and Methodius the Gospel - and the rest of the Bible, and the relevant liturgical texts - were certainly available in Armenian, Aramaic and Coptic, just to name three more languages. All three of those languages are still in use (in varying degrees, obviously).

It is correct that our tradition indicates the use of a hieratic functional variety of the language of the nation - but that does not exclude retaining older languages as well.

Incognitus