www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Farewell to meat?

I'm really curious: What are the official requirmeents for fasting in the Byzantine Catholic Church?

I know what the Orthodox rules are.

I also know that fasting is supposed to be an ascetical aid to prayer and spiritual growth.

What I don't know --and what has been difficult for me to find online-- is this: What are the official rules of fasting in the Byzantine Catholic Church? For Lent and also for other times.

I thank in advance anyone who can point me to a website or answer the question.

-- John

Duh. I found what I was looking for by searching this site. Maybe I should try doing that *before* I post a question? My apologies.

Here are two good threads on fasting rules.

https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001918;p=2 (towards the bottom of the page and thereafter)

https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000846;p=1

-- John

John

Don't forget to look at the Recipes Thread on Town Hall - it's terribly easy to fall into a rut with your menu

This brings another question to mind. Why is the Ruthenian Rite in North America so out of step with Orthodoxy regarding the Fasting Rules and regulation?

The fasting rules are so unrecognizable to Orthodoxy.

Ray,

In the case of the Ruthenians and their cousins in ACROD, this seems to back at least 70 years ago. Why I can not tell you, but in reading some historical accounts of the time, that seemed to be the norm, a different tyle of observing the fast or a laxity of the typical fasting rules observed by Byzantine Churches.

It may have had some influence of the Roman Church had on these groups when they were still united at that time, were it was felt to be Catholic over-rode the Byzantine identity.

I hope this helps a little.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Here are a couple of short, Byzantine evening prayers; I don't know the sources.

1. (Just before getting into bed, say:)

"Guard me, O Lord, by the power of Your holy and life-giving Cross, and keep me from all evil."

(Just before yielding yourself up to sleep, say:)

"Into Your hands, O Lord Jesus Christ, my God, I surrender my spirit and body; bless me, save me, and grant me eternal life." Amen

2. Evening Prayer to the Guardian Angel

"O Guardian Angel of my right hand, attend to me this night. Rescue me in the raging floods; cover me in your robe for I am without defense. Answer me, for I am weak and alone. Amen."

Like St. Therese, the Little Flower, I prefer short prayers. She even wrote in her autobiography, Story of a Soul, that long, elaborate prayers gave her a headache!

Thanks for the prayer suggestions, John. I enjoy both lengthy, verbose prayers and concise ones; it often depends on my mood and state of wakefulness.

Ray, I think you will get an answer if you look at the old and not so old photos. The clergy were dressed as Latins including the bishops who you could not tell apart from Latin ones. This is just the tip of the iceberg everything since has had to be relearnt as the badly mixed up liturgy was the only thing different from the RCs in many places. In short it had just become another way of "saying Mass". You will not see any of the Basilians male or female to this day dressed as byzantines. We are working to get back to where we should be. The mess did not occour over night the difference is that people who know what is supposed to be are pushing the bishops to make the proper changes back to the tradition that was abandonded out of a sense of inferiority.

ICXC
NIKA

That is perhaps the most concise and concentrated summary I have seen on that subject. Well said.

-- John

from the look of the www.calendar.goarch.org [calendar.goarch.org] fasting from oil is encouraged for most of lent. This presents a bit of a problem for me. To live off beans and roots is not so hard but to live without oil..is difficult, not that I use more than a tablespoon per meal..the trick..if it is not self defeating appears to be to mix oil producing foods into our recipies. Tahini for example (sesame seed paste). Is this a silly form of cheating? Does everyone really expect to have no oil intake in lent? is there really a relevance in giving up ALL oil, from a nutritional contents perspective..is this even possible. Or is it the idea to consume as little oil as possible? So people do what suits them. Does this mean oil suits me? Why even put this question on a forum when a spiritual director is the one to answer this question?

I have just discovered this wonderful site on the various aspects of Lent and includes recipes as well as the more pressing spiritual side of the season.

http://www.balamand.edu.lb/theology/lenten_resources.htm

Dont forget there are seafoods (not fish) and vegetables, not to mention fruits in addition to the roots and beans already mentioned. So missing oil will be the least of your problems. What a spiritual athlete you will be....all ready for the next fast and the one after that...

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Criostoir,

Almost nobody fasts from oil during Lent in the Greek Orthodox churches, including the clergy and the hierarchy. That is quite extreme for our hectic lives and our climate...(well-atleast my climate). I am surprised that the website encouraged this as I have never heard a priest or even a monastic elder encourage the abstinence of oil.

In Christ,
Alice, your resident Greek Orthodox!

Excellent, thanks for filling the wisdom, Alice. Perhaps fasting from oil was probably left over from the time when people went through so much effort to make their own oil and brought olives, seeds, nuts to a community press. Still I will see how well I can do to use very little of it. Some soup and stew recipes use none at all, but these are rare.

I dont think people did much in terms of doing it themselves with olives. Olives are sometimes described as poor mans meat. Oil is a very important commodity even in ancient times and was shipped in volume all over the ancient world. As today a massive amount of oil was consumed. So even if meat was not consumed often you can bet you bottom dollar they had olive oil. There are cook books in the USA for Great Lent and they are not expensive so maybe it's time to invest in one.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Pavel,

You are correct about olives and olive oil. Olive oil and olives are quite basic sustenance in the southern Mediterranean where people have been poor and hungry through occupations and wars and in everything in between.

Olive oil is very filling and very healthful and it is used in abundance in southern Mediterranean cooking, most especially in vegetable dishes which are a mainstay there.

Mediterranean people don't have to try to count up to five servings of fruits and vegetables like we do in the West. A typical baked or cooked vegetable dish w/olive oil (which are not eaten just during Lent) will have atleast that many servings in just one meal.

Scientists have also found that olive oil contributes to the health in a major way. Occurence of heart disease is low in these countries as are certain types of cancers.

Olive oil has always been a commodity in that part of the world...and the greener,(extra virgin) the better. Knowing just how healthful it is, every time I poor it into a salad, pasta dish, or whatever else, I think to myself 'liquid gold'.

For anyone interested, if you have a Greek or Italian ethnic area market in close proximity, the prices on olive oil are much cheaper than at the supermarkets, and the quality is excellent...though the bottles or tins may not look as elegant.

In Christ,
Alice