www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Saint Mary or the Theotokos

Here's a brief question that I just had to ask.
My sister-in-law (Mary) frequently refers to the Theotokos as "Saint Mary".
I know who (what Mary) she means but it somehow (in my opinion) relegates Her to a position that She's most definitely above.
Can any of you help me suggest an alternative (other than the Theotokos) that I could suggest to my sister-in-law ?
Although Saint Mary is perfectly correct it just doesn't seem fitting and can be somewhat confusing at times.

Brad

Dear Brad,

In actual fact, the reference to the Mother of our Lord as simply "Saint Mary" was once listed as one of the "errors of the Latins" by the Eastern Churches!

The East has always insisted on the title "Most Holy Mother of God."

There is also "Most Holy Virgin Mary" that I see Fr. Michael Pomazansky use in his "Orthodox Dogmatic Theology."

Here is the full liturgical title of the Mother of our Lord from the Byzantine Divine LIturgy:

"The Most Holy, Most Pure, Most Blessed and our Glorious Sovereign Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary."

Alex

Thanks for that Alex.

Ironically my sister-in-law is Eastern Orthodox.

Dear Brad,

Tisk - Tisk!

We Catholics have our role to fulfill with respect to the Orthodox too, you know!

Alex

Unless you are Ukrainian Catholic. Then the temple/parish is either the "Immaculate Conception"

http://www.ukrcathedralphiladelphia.net/

or "St. Mary's"

http://members.tripod.com/~cerkva/parishes/st_mary2.html

Joe

The Theotokos is referred to as St. Mary in England.

Dear Cantor Joseph (Mary-isn't-God) Thur

Not all Ukr. Catholics go as far East as we two!



Alex

You make fun of my insistence that Mary isn't God. Why? Am I not orthodox in my undestanding?

Please refrain from calling me Cantor in the future. That, along with many other things, was a thing of the past. Thanks.

Joe

Hey Joe!

O.K., you are orthodox, most certainly.

But you made that statement, not I.

The suggestion at the time was that we who were discussing Fr. Gregory's quote from a Holy Father somehow thought that she is God.

And I didn't know you weren't Cantoring any more.

Alex

Dear Joe,

I apologise for having given you offense.

It was not my intention, but somehow I always wind up doing that.

Please impose a penance on me of your choosing.

Alex

Saint Mary is a perfectly acceptable moniker for her. I cannot see any relegation or insinuation at all.

Besides "Bells of St Mary's" was one of my favorite movies.

Mary is less formal, (and I think, more intimate and friendly) I suppose we can compare it to our ways of addressing Christ: there is high Christology and low Christology, neither is wrong.

He can be Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ or simply Jesus.

Saint Mary is the God-bearer, I prefer the term Theotokos but I don't pray Hail Theotokos, or hail Blessed Virgin Mary, I prefer the words of the angel and pray: Hail Mary.

I have often noticed a certain touchiness among some people because they believe the role of Mary in the publics' mind is diminishing, some are concerned that the traditional devotions are not as popular. I am not concerned, the use of a more familiar term for Mary is probably a good sign in my opinion, she becomes even more approachable.

May the Holy Theotokos pray for us!

Michael

In my Roman Catholic circles, I always think "St. Mary" sounds odd, and I rarely hear it from the pulpit or in conversation. Usually I hear "Blessed Mother", "Blessed Virgin", "Blessed Virgin Mary", "Virgin Mary", or just "Mary". I never hear "Theotokos" (unless it's coming out of my mouth - my personal term is "Blessed Theotokos").

Although I was married in an old church called "St. Mary".

Dear Friends,

In the Ethiopian Church, Christians often repeat the Name of Mary(am) thousands of times in her honour on her feast-days and at places of pilgrimage.

But the Byzantine tradition does prefer "Most Holy Virgin Mary" and "Most Holy Theotokos" when she is referred to outside the liturgical services (where one can indeed find the term "Saint" applied to her).

So high is the E. Slavic tradition of veneration for the Mother of God that women are never named "Mary" for her, but for another female saint.

Alex

Alex,

No penance needed. Just tell your wife today that you love her. Love and let live.

Joe

Got tired of it. Looking for another spiritual home these days.

Joe