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And I see you as being somewhat arrogant in your remarks.

All appeals to Rome were just that appeals...Rome never had the authority to impose its views on the other Churches and I believe there was a case to do with the Alexandrian Church where the matter was referred to Rome which gave judgement which the Alexandrian Church then proceeded to say "Thanks but no thanks"....

Plus I can also accuse you of looking at the whole matter in an ultramontane way circa 2005 but I wont because rehasing all the arguements...You are a schismatic...no you are a heretic really won't het is anywhere...

Anton

Dear Tobit,

Please forgive me, but you are way out of line here.

I am an Eastern Catholic, my great-uncle was an Archbishop-Confessor for his loyalty to Rome and spent ten years in Siberia and endured 18 house arrests when he got out. I have some others in the extended family who are now blessed martyrs for their loyalty to Rome.

We do not call our Orthodox brothers "schismatics" - that belongs to another, less enlightened and ecumenical era of Roman Catholic triumphalism which, by the way, came about only in the Middle Ages and which Rome has spent a lot of time now repudiating.

We can have a debate on papal authority in the first millennium and the role of ecumenical councils, but we can leave that to another thread (there are many here already that discuss that very subject).

I would ask you to please apologise and, in future, cease with such commentary.

If you cannot, then silence would be in order.

Alex

Dear Alex, hrist is Risen!
Yikes! A confessor in your family! Will he likely be canonized (or is he still alive on this earth)? And the others who are martyrs?

Today (13 May, OS) we Orthodox folk commemorate, among others, the "Monks of Iveron martyred by the Latins in the 13th century", which brings up an obvious problem, perhaps best not discussed here, but one of which I'm sure that you are long aware, that Catholics and Orthodox both have saints who are martyrs and confessors, done in by each other.

Photius

My point stands that the Pope excommunicated schismatics that were of heretical nature ie monophysites and arians some of which were patriarchs. Your poltical correctness has caused you to overcompensate in aplogizing for heretics.
Think a little here bud you are asking the Pope who was protecting proper Christology to apologize to the arians and monophysites who were in ture schism from proper Christology what next apolgoize to the JW's and Mormons for not saying they are christians. Your ecunisms is poltically correct and is compromsing. You have painted to far a brush on me my friend. I did not include any division that was apart from heretical schisms the division of the second millinium were not truly schismatic in nature and the orthodox who parted ways during this time are not in the same category of the schims I properly pointed out.
I was not aware that ecunemical attitudes now have us disregarding schims such as arianism and they are would not be in schism with us. How silly of me welcome to the catholic church my Jehohvah Witness brother and sisters!

Dear Photius,

Some have been, and I understand that my great uncle may very well be in future.

I met him at my aunt's a few years before he died.

He held a little prayer rope in his hand on which he constantly prayed. A very kindly old man with bright, shiny eyes. He met many Orthodox confessors in Siberia as well.

Yes, I too honour those martyrs for Orthodoxy!

And St Mark of Ephesus and others.

Alex

Dear Tobit,

I apologise for coming off too harshly, please forgive me.

You are correct, of course.

Orthodox Christians are not in the same category as JW's and the like. If you believe they are, then we do have a problem here, and not just involving me and yourself.

That the Orthodox Catholic East looked to the Pope of Rome as a defender of doctrinal orthodoxy - that is a fact, especially underlined at the Sixth Ecumenical Council.

That is also the function of the Pope, to be the ultimate arbiter in theological disputes, to defend those who were wrongfully accused and to affirm orthodox truth. This the popes have always done.

There are many Orthodox here on this forum who are very warm toward Catholics, and even, dare I say it, like some of us!!

As I've always said, it is the Will of God for all Christians to be in communion with the See of Rome, as was the case formerly during the first millennium of the Church.

I don't blame you for being upset with me, but I think I've made my point, even though I apologise for overdoing it.

Laudetur Iesus Christus!

Alex

When you stop and think about it, if God determined the salvation of both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches on the basis of how they have treated each other, both groups might very well be sent to Hell.

Dear Charles,

That could very well be!

But it does show how seriously people take religion.

This is always a source of upset for agnostics, in my experience.

I was once talking about martyrs with an Orthodox priest and he mentioned St Josaphat . . .

He proceeded to say that, "He could be honoured locally, you know." My jaw dropped to the restaurant floor . . .

The Anglicans have an interesting feast of "All Saints of the Reformation Era" on October 31st of Martin's Theses fame.

They include both Catholic and Protestant martyrs.

Ours is a time to reflect on history and to practice forgiveness for making martyrs of one another.

Alex

I know someone, humble and great, who has accepted responsibility for all the sins of the sons and daughters of the Catholic Church past and present and, thus, has asked for forgiveness!

Have you?

Amado

JPII's requests for forgiveness were friendly gesture that enhanced his outreach to others. I personally think that no one can actually repent for the sins of another. We do judge past events as if they happened in our own time. If the Turks were at my door, destroying my church, and threatening my family, I might not feel so kindly toward them - actually, I know I wouldn't. But I do think that if Christians had not been so occupied with fighting each other, they might have been more succesful against their common enemies.