www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Serbian Orthodox & Communion

The thread was originally centered on what the practice is, and not subjective criticism of it.

??? is a seemingly quite subjective and judgemental statement about the intent of the communicants. At least many would likely read it that way. I don't think it is for any of us to judge hearts in this way when personal preparation, spiritual direction, penitent-priest relationships all may come into play. Several of the early penitentials were quite strict about the reception of the Mysteries after certain sins.

There certainly can be a nonchalance not only for the Holy Things but also for the gravity of sin if the sense of preparation and state of soul are not communicated to the faithful.

Regarding the last post - I don't think anyone has even remotely suggested diminishing the frequency of communion where more frequent communion is the practice. Perhaps those not of those traditions of less frequent communion should at least respect them.
DD

is vastly different in subjectiveness and judgmentalism than this:
The fuller statement reveals that this remark is a complete misrepresentation

Quote richly not cheaply.

"even remotely suggested"? What on earth then is the significance of bringing up "the Eucharistic nonchalance and even abuses in the RC church"? Anyway, I guess I was right in my "trust".

Or perhaps not. The fact that it is somehow someone's traditions does not ipso facto make it immune from any criticism. It certainly doesn't for us.

Since we are talking about practices, perhaps the discussion of other perspectives and historical developments can at least be mentioned. The existence of the penitentiaries for extended periods of abstention for Communion for certain sins is there.

And again, there is no explicit suggestion on my part for reducing the frequency of communion of anyone. If we are going to be critical of infrequent, then perhaps the objective thing to do is to consider the other perspective.

My "trust" about a perceived lack of respect for other traditions and a questioning of infrequent certainly seems to be right as well.
DD

Alex, DD and djs,

What are some of the rules and practices in the Byzantine tradition which are recommended in preparation to approach the Chalice? I've never seen anything written on this and would like to incorporate this into my own weekly prayer rule.

Alex you specifically mentioned a rule of prayer that Father Alexander Schmemann, of blessed memory, recommended. Is there a link anywhere on the web to such a rule?

Thanks,

Gordo

As a word of caution to Gordo's request, please specify the tradition that requires the rule. As you will see by the replies there are several and they are diverse.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Gordo, the statement by Fr. Alexander of blessed memory was not really a rule, per se. Schmemann suggested that even if a portion of the usual Communion prayers could be recited every day, that would be sufficient.

You can find that in many places, including the canons and akathists at Fr. John Whiteford's site http://www.saintjonah.org/services/akathists.htm

Precommunion prayers at http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/precommunion.htm and post-communion at http://www.saintjonah.org/services/prayers.htm Regarding the "guidelines", a good place to start is the Church of the Nativity in Erie's page http://www.churchofthenativity.net/rules.html

Actually what Fr. Alexander proposes, like many things throughout his life, is very sensible.

By incorporating this "longer rule" throughout the week, if you have a smaller outlying parish or mission community and only have Divine Liturgy on Sundays and feasts, the preparation becomes a continual part of your daily prayer rule. I use a division suggested by my spiritual father in this way.
DD

I realize I may be answering my own question here, but here are a few links I ran across in the "non-com" version of Google (these searches would no doubt be illegal in Red China).

http://www.svots.edu/Events/Orthodox-Education-Day/Articles/2000-Fr-Thomas-Hopko-2.html

http://www.roca.org/OA/151/151m.htm

http://www.churchofthenativity.net/...r%20Preparation%20for%20Holy%20Communion

http://www.stjohndc.org/russian/what/e_Communion_Preparat.htm

And for the Canon...

http://www.pomog.org/index.html?http://www.pomog.org/communion.shtml

Any others that you would recommend?

Thank you for the links! I will ask my spiritual father about the practice you mentioned. I'm sure he would encourage it.

I would also like to encourage my family to incorporate a shortened version of this in our own time of prayer together.

I also found this (somewhat unrelated) link that I thought had some beautiful prayers that can be said by family members for each other.

http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/parentsandchildren.htm

Thanks!

Gordo

I don�t agree.

The practice of infrequent communion as I understand it arose from excessive piety surrounding this seminal aspect of the liturgy. It was in essence being overly prepared that became the norm. Meaning one would have to be in a near perfect spiritual state to receive. I don�t discount that some who don�t receive often, now or in the past, have done so because they haven�t taken the trouble to prepare. I don�t however think that is the source of the practice. I have spoken with people who have come from traditions where infrequent communion was the norm and the preparation they would go through in order to be ready was extremely rigorous.

Ultimately it is a balance, because we are never truly worthy to receive communion, but we must also prepare ourselves so that we don�t partake unworthily. Frequent confession is intrinsically tied with frequent communion. It is probably also worth keeping in mind that sometimes when our spiritual state is at its lowest, that may be when we need the medicine of the Eucharist the most.

Ironically, I have seen outside Orthodoxy places where frequent communion is the norm, to the point of where it would almost be looked down on not to partake. It would at least be highly unusual. My impression was preparation was essentially non-existent, and practices such as the total pre-communion fast unknown.

Andrew

Dear Fr. DIAKon,

Yes, I agree that Fr. Deacon Lance can come across as arrogant, at times! Especially when he doesn't agree with me!

There was also a Roman Catholic saint, whose name escapes me just now, who once said that we should be in a state preparation for Holy Communion all our lives - after Communion, we should begin to immediately prepare for the next time etc.

IF Fr. Deacon Lance's comment on ritual preparation was referring to the Old Rite "1,000 prayer" rule, and I don't know if it was, then the Old Believer tradition isn't any different from the rule of preparation proposed by the RC Saint Leonard of Port Maurice who likewise prescribed the prayer "My Jesus, mercy!" 1,000 times daily within the context of preparation for Communion.

Fr. Deacon Lance's comment on "ritual preparation," suggests the ever-present temptation to "fulfill the rule" without, as St Theophane the Recluse would have said, "feeling and effort" on our part.

Personally, I find the opposite to be true. If I don't have a rule, my prayer-time will be short and soon forgotten.

Our fallen nature would have us leave prayer altogether, or else, when we pray, we feel, as the Christian who thought the Rosary was a prayer that "seemed to last for five decades . . ."

The more we discipline ourselves through "ritual prayers" and prayer rules, the more open we become to true Communion with God in the Holy Trinity after we deeply immerse our spirits in the things of God.

I remember reading about the physician at Diveyevo who performed the rule of 150 Our Father's and 150 Hail Mary's while walking around the ditch at the monastery. He had a list of things to ask God for. But in the end, he experienced such a delicious sense of the Divine Presence that he realized he did not need a single thing on his list and simply asked God to even take away what he already had, but to allow him to always savour the beautiful experience of His Presence as he was doing right then and there.

And his wish was granted - the Bolsheviks came and took away all he had, he emigrated to the U.S. and suffered poverty and want. But it was all bearable because he always experienced, in the depth of his soul, the true Communion with God and Christ.

Do you think Fr. Deacon Lance should go to confession for what he said above?

I usually never make it a practice to get between men of the cloth - I find I can get squashed in so doing . . .

Alex

Fr. Deacon Randolph,

My intention was not to offend and as DJS pointed out I think you are misreading my statements.

Perhaps I misread yours as well because I took them to be praising the practice of infrequent Communion. Preparing is praiseworthy as is not receiving when not properly disposed.

What I find objectionable is having a required prepartion that is so strict that it discourages the majority of the faithful from receiving more than once a year and then holding said practice up as praiseworthy.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Yes, Alex, often when it comes to questions of personal piety, my Old Rite sympathies are very often quite strong (as my spiritual father is oft to remind me). I simply can't approach unless I have made an attempt of prayerful preparation including confession.

And Fr. Deacon, as you likewise I don't want preparation for the dread mysteries reduced to mechanical formulas. Nor to the other extreme, as neither do I want anyone to approach frivilously or too lightly.
DD

Dear Fr. DIAKon,

That's not Fr Deacon Lance in your avatar, is it?

Alex

I agree completely. And the phenomenon of infrequent communion due to feelings of unworthiness is by no means confined to the Eastern churches. My father is a Syro-Malabar Catholic, but when he was growing up in India, his family almost always attended Latin Mass (simply because the church was closer :rolleyes: ). There, in the Latin Mass, almost no one received Communion; they would do so perhaps once a year, in order to satisfy their "Easter duty". According to my father, this was because the people never felt sufficiently pure to communicate. He attributed this attitude to ignorance. I don't know whether lack of education/catechesis was the culprit for this excessive piety, but it does make sense to me. (OTOH, both my father and I went to Jesuit high schools. The Jesuits are well known for encouraging frequent reception of the Sacraments, so perhaps my father and I are biased.)

Peace,
Alex NvV