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In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God. Amen.


Dearest Brother Ed,

I think you have hit the mark in your above comment.

Our religion is not a hate religion—it is a love religion. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. We thrive in people converting to one form of paganism or another. Every week there is a new highly paid and highly advertised Guru being invited to deliver his message to a crowd on our campus. The one that came last week focused on “love” and “spreading love.” If he was not introduced as a pagan you would have almost thought that he was a Christian. People are attracted to this type of crowd because they feel that it is more spiritually focused than Christianity etc. My first instinct is to say, people who think that know nothing about Christian Monastic Spirituality, they do not understand Christianity's love message. But then, who is at fault is this, the people that hold these views or the people who have fostered this impression by advertising Christianity as a hell fire delivery sermon for the last couple of centuries?

Christ's message was one of redemption, salvation, grace and love. That is what we should focus on, our 5 Christian commandments that Christ either introduced or highlighted from older commandments: 1) “Though shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy mind, and with all thy soul and with all thy strength. 2) “Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself” ( Both in Luke 10: 25-28). 3) “A NEW commandment I give you, that you love one another as I have loved you, that you also love one another…” (John 13: 34-35; think about that one for a minute). 4) “But I say to you who hear: love your enemies, do good to those that hate you…” (Luke 6: 27-28). 5) “Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets.” This last one is called the “Golden Rule.” It turns out that many ancient philosophers also said things similar to this. I find it strange that people just love it when Confucius says “treat others as you would like to be treated” but when Christ says the same thing they have not the same interest.

May God be with you all

Aklie Semaet

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God. Amen.


Dearest Brother Maximus,

First of all I think many of the early Christians were probably angry at Paul, who used to persecute them and have them killed, being granted such a central role and leadership in the Church. Some, no doubt, probably did not even forgive him for his old behavior. But then, God is more perfect and more merciful than human beings. Of course someone like Hannibal Lector should be removed from society, but even someone of his caliber deserves a chance to repent and be saved, that decision is not ours.

But you feelings are understood. There are two times when I was really tested in my strength to forgive and came close to supporting for the death penalty. Once was when the white supremacists dragged the Black man in Texas by the car. After their conviction, one of the racist made a comment to the family members of the victim to the effect of “why don't you eat his [the victims] di*k.” I thought to my self forget the death penalty why don't I go and choke him myself. 2) When the little girl Polly Class was kidnapped, raped , and killed by an arrogant and horrific individual. This killer actually flipped off Poly Class's suffering parents when he was in the courtroom (there was a big picture of this on the front pages of the news . He then got up and made a disgusting comment that “before I killed Polly, she told me that "at least don't rape me the way my father does.'” This was beyond reprehensible, I felt like saying forget the gas chamber let him have the firing squad or the chair. But, thank God, I was eventually able to overcome my personal weaknesses in both these cases and oppose the death penalty being sentenced for all these individuals.

Any ways I think we all really know that the only sodomy we don't like is that of homosexual men. We have a big problem in our country with adultery but I never see anyone walking around with signs saying death to the adulteres. Adultery is a sin too.

I have always voted against measures that seek to discriminate against homosexuals. I will also continue to do so. The same people passing these measures will be back next year with a measure to kick the Mexicans out of California, outlawing school access and emergency medical care to “illegal immigrants” and whatever hate-style politics they can get their hands on.

In our Church (EOTC) it is still a sin to eat pork. If by any chance some measure appeared on the ballot that sought to outlaw the slaughtering and selling of pig meat in California, I would vote against it. I may think that it is a disgusting to eat pig but I am willing to defend peoples' right to be “disgusting.” I would rather them make the decision on their own.

Some of those Islamic states that institute Sheria law have outlawed alcohol, pork, and have severe penalties for adultery and fornication. Does that alter the moral character of the people in those societies? Absolutely not! Instead we find those same Muslims now on their vacation in Ethiopia in night clubs drunk as drunk can get and surrounded by prostitutes. They have a hotel room and from the day they come to the day they leave they have twosomes, threesomes, and othersomes every night. So now their problem becomes the problem of a third world country.

Legalistic measures can never create genuine conviction and righteous decision making.

I keep reading throughout this forum that it is our “DUTY” as Christians to tell our gay friends and family members that their behavior is wrong. That may very well be, but these same people never seem to be so insistent that we should be telling our straight friend, who live unmarried with their partners, that it is wrong to fornicate.

This is because one has more societal acceptance than the other. Unmarried sex starts in high school, is in the movies and throughout popular culture. Male-male homosexuality, while being a sin equal (and not worse) to fornication and adultery, is also culturally repulsive, it is “nasty.” People import their own cultural or personal beliefs into the faith and substitute their personal agenda for Christianity. There is a group that frequently comes on our campus and holds signs that say “GOD HATES FAGGOTS.” This not only reveals their flirtation with hate politics (they are probably sexist and racist as well) but the most profoundness of ignorance. God hates sexual immorality not sexual immoralists. That includes fornication, but those signs never say “God hates fornicators” in part because most of these sign carriers are all guilty of having done it before and are probably still doing it.

Nothing, except being a monk, can replace the joy and spiritual occurrence of being married, raising a family, helping each other, and becoming “one flesh” in holy matrimony and Godly love. That is what we should demonstrate to our homosexual brothers and sisters, Christian love not Pat Robertson hate.

Egzabiher keante gar yehun

Aklie Semaet

Aklie,

I tell you I feel the Protestant faith especially as it is represented by the evangilical fundamentalist groups, has done imeasurable harm to Christianity. I know this is "politicaly incorrect" of me to say amongst my modern day Catholic peers, but so be it.

Most people that are what you would call unchurched, think that the Roman Catholic Church is the same as Protestant evangilical groups that walk around with "God hates faggots" signs. I have to let these people know that is not Catholicism. Why is this so? In my opinion it is because of the very vocal voice of the so called "religious right". And because of the rather effeminate position the Catholic Church has taken in America. American Catholics have decided to be like the black Americans of the "black face" era. Accept what image they are given and try to seperate themselves as far away from the Catholic Church proper as it can.

I've gotten into two discussion with Protestants in the past where they wanted put down the Virgin Mary. I've calmly invited them to follow me in an alley and finish the discussion there with our fists. They've both declined. I know typicaly this is considered to far to go - and perhaps it is - but by the same token we Catholics (I know your Orthodox) should show a better example for our "young'ns" that some things are worth fighting for and dieing for.

I bet one thing my kids won't take leaving the Virgin Mary, Her and Her Son's Church lightly. And the Protestants won't ever think they lead me, because they'll know I lead them! And I talk to them as I do.

Maximus --

I really want to respond to part of your post where you talk about the harm that Protestantism has done to Christianity.

I have seen it quite first hand. Fundamentalism is a dysfunctional religion which by the most attracts a high number of really dysfunctional people. The pastor becomes the alcoholic father and the people, those who do unwittingly play the game, play the suffering family. Like all dysfunctional people, everything comes in black/white, either/or. Either you love Jaaaaaayzuz or ya doesn't. Either you "assept Him as Savior" or He's gonna put a whuppin' on ya!!

Of course, Calvinism is even worse, turning the loving Father Who sent His Son to redeem ALL MANKIND into a demon/god of paganism who relishes torturing His creation because He is REALLY, REALLY PISSED AT THEM!!! Thus you get the demonically inspired doctrine of "double predestination" in which God "elects" a great number of people to eternal torment for no other reason than He has the right to be thus angry with them because they are wicked wretches.

I think I would be rather uncomfortable being in the presence of such a God. Would constantly be worried that He would change His mind about me and fry my buns!!!!

Protestantism proves that if you scream loud enough, harangue people with enough visual imagery of tormented souls in fire, you can just about scare anyone into walkin' the ole sawdust trail. Then go away braggin' about what a great revival and work of the Holy Spirit just took place.

The arch-heretic C.G. Finney, who invented the idea of an "invitation to assept Jaaaaaaayzuz" back in the 19th century, used to go through small towns and make "converts" by the hundreds. The only problem was that in 2 or 3 years they were right back to their old sinful ways and the pastors of mainline assemblies said ruefully that Finney had made their job nigh unto impossible in regards to working with these people.

Same deal with heretic Luther. When the peasants, simple people that they are, took the logical epistomology of Luther's "once saved - always saved" soteriology, they RAN back to fornication and drunkeness and Germany became an open sewer of immorality.

Of course, then we have the modern day charlatans, like Robert Tilton, Beeny Hinn, Oral Roberts, etc. Talk about prelest!!! I watched the Tonight Show one night and it showed how one of these FAKES had a reciever in his ear and his wife, who had "innocently" canvassed the crowd very early on, was feeding him information on the people. And he had the NERVE to act as if the Holy Spirit was whispering right in his ear, even cocking his head to one side as if trying to more distinctly hear the Spirit speak to him!!!!

Man, git that guy AWAY from ME on the Judgement Day. That is gonna be one serious spanking he gets!!!!

You are right, these people are deluded, sick, and some of them, like Fred Phelps, the guy who organizes the GOD HATES FAGS rallies, are absolutely CRAZY!!!! I do not say that lightly. Mr. Phelps, godly man that he is in his crusade for anti-gay holiness, was wont to beat his wife and children with an axe handle. Quite frequently too. His son wrote a book about it. I wonder who he whups up on now that he is alone??

And the worst part about it is that these people are LIARS. Talk to them about the Early Church and you will come away thinking that St. Augustine was really D.L. Moody hiding in dalmatics. They will tell you that the Church was ANYTHING but Catholic -- Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist (especially those crazy Landmarkers --- yeeeeeesh!!!!). They lie to their "sheep" and keep them in darkness.

Know what that means? It means that instead of jumpin' up and down, foaming at the mouth and yelling "AMEN BROTHER" every time some Bible pounder yelled out "ALL QUEERS ARE GOING TO HELL" I could have started my journey a lot earlier and I bet could have been a better family man and general person as I learned that the message indeed is that God is love and we are to emulate Him in that love.

Theosis is best started as young as possible with the Sacraments and the Church to lead the soul. I don't know why God made me wait for 53 years, but I partially blame those Fundys and Prots who lied through their teeth about the Church, whether intentionally or unintentionally. To me, no difference, the result was the same. I learned their hate and spewed it out like a good little clone. And, if you understand anything about obsessive/compulsive dysfuntional personalities (which I was in SPADES) all this junk just fed that sickness like dung feeds flies. It makes those who need to feel good about their miserable stinking lives feel good by trashing the rest of the world. After all, if you are one of the elect of God, then it is fair dinkum to look down on everyone else who is the non-elect, and gleefully pronounce them hell-bound when they die.

Man....I could give you 40 or 50 pages like this, with personally observed anecdotes of the sickness.

Pray that God will shut down the Protestant rebellion, bring them to their senses and Home to the Catholic Faith where the Sacraments can heal them.

Angry? Yeah, a bit. Not enough to do anything rash, but I do have to watch myself when debating them on some of the Prot forums. I can get rather terse, especially the more silly or obtuse they act. Y'all keep praying for me to lose the attitude and really learn that Jesus loves them too.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: Altar Boy ]

Ed,

Well that was quite a post.

Just a bit upset?

I was raised Catholic, was even alter boy up through freshman year in high school, but I never got confirmed. When I did get confirmed as an adult my sponsor was a converted Protestant. And he is a better example of a Catholic then most of us "cradle" Catholics.

Pluse he has inside understanding of the Protestant faith and culture. Which is help in not only restraining young Catholics in their Catholic faith but also in converting Protestants into the Catholic Church.

So God can make good out of all of our roads, long roads as they sometimes may be.

Ultimately I do not have the right to ask God WHY?

I am not He and I really have no "right" to the reasons why I was taken on such a tortuous journey to get where I am now.

I would really like to be used of the Lord to protect those who are in His Church from the Bible thumping predators who go door to door. To that end, I am looking into classes at the local Latin diocesan center. Completion of these classes will entitle me to certification as a catechist to teach catechumens. It is my hope that Fr. Mike, our priest, will allow me to begin an evangelism committee and start a visitation program over the summer. My ultimate goal would be to have a class of 10 - 20 inquirers at St. Ann's to whom I could teach the Eastern Catholic Faith.

The priest who catechized me has been assigned to his own parish, so we don't have anyone doing this at this time.

Your prayers for my intention are appreciated.

Cordially in Christ, LORD of the Eucharist,


Brother Ed

CHRIST IS RISEN!

The best example of Christian Love and Forgiveness that I have seen recently was in the case of my daughter's murdered boyfriend. When His family faced the trial of the murderer, they asked the DA that the Death Penalty not be invoked.(In Texas that is a minor miracle in and of itself). When the murderer was convicted the mother of the murdered boy stood up in court and told his murderer, " I forgive you. And I pray that in the life that you will live, you will come to accept the Lord Jesus Christ and remember the mercy he has given for many."

To me this exemplified the Christian response to any so called death penalty offense. To forgive and pray for conversion. What a great way to show Christ's love.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

Wow.

This woman's example of forgiveness should make the rest of the church world hang its head in shame at our collective pettiness. How often do we get all bolluxed up in minor issues and turn them into major issues. And this woman loses her daughter to murder, and still finds her faith the guide in loving forgiveness.

Lord, have mercy on us sinners.

Christ is Risen!!

Apropos some of the preceding comments, might I - - as a linguistics person - - make a comment?

Although there are certainly Protestants (or store-front folks) who emblazon the cross on their vesture and carry Bibles, I don't think we should use the broad brush of "Protestant" to designate both "them" and the vast majority of good Protestant folks who live out their lives in conformity with the Gospel. Although as Catholics or Orthodox, we tend to see any Christian not in our camp as "protestant", lumping the whole crowd together is just not fair.

Perhaps we should use "independent Christian" or "ministries" to designate those who are self-anointed preachers. Some of these groups have indeed done massive damage to the Christian Gospel by promoting their own interpretation of the Gospel and creating a 'ministry empire'.

But there are other "Protestants", who engage in grace-filled, prayerful service to God and to their neighbors. Let's not tar the good folks because of a few bad apples we 'designate' as Protestant. (There's an alternative-rock song that talks about "guilty by association" where a kid sings about being considered all sorts of bad stuff because he is a teenager and we "know" what teenagers are and do. This type of stereotyping stinks. Just like the stereotyping of "protestants".)

Blessings to all no matter one's church-identity card. Let's let the Holy Spirit work out His distribution of grace and cooperate with all those who freely choose to try to follow God. No judgement. No condemnation. Just love of God and love of everyone we encounter.)

Christ is Risen!!!

Thomas a [true] example of Christian love and forgivness for sure!

Personaly I would have not done it - call it a direct act of will - I would've prefered to see him die, and if it was my son... a slow death it would be if he ever crossed my camp.

Dr John,

Protestant = Protestor

Taken to it's full theological implications = to protest Christ and His Church.

If you are not Catholic or Orthodox you are Protestant. I prefer not to treat Protestant adults as children with this matter. If they choose to refuse to acknowledge Christian history and it's line of Bishops it is an act of their will.

It is easier to take the responsibilty to learn the roots of Christianity the importance placed on it's sacraments, and what the Mormon or Baptist relation is to that. Then to fight your natural inclination to see a serial killer put to Capital Punishment.

It never cease to amaze me at the wide cushy space we will extend to people of rather reasonable capabilities of their *will*, yet turn around and get critical and demanding of people who personal *will* power is surely tested i.e. the community effected by a captured serial killer, the alcoholic, and so forth and on.

My experienced with "saved" people is that they in general [don't] want to [submit] to the authority of the Orthodox or Catholic Church from the jump... so are closed off from pursueing any furthure knowledge pertaining to the Universal Church. Pluse they feel very comfortable in their *personal salvation*. But since we are a society now not of *morals* but rather of *competence*. The fact that Protestants are *competent* in their religious faith - we exhalt them as are equals.

I say people should go to the cardinal virtues: Prudence, Fortitude, Temperance, & Justice.

Then one will know if they should stay outside of the Universal Church - if proclaiming to be Christian. Anything else, in the end, is just forgery of the Christian art.

Maximus --

Let's start a new thread on this issue. I am going to call it

HOW IMPORTANT IS TRUTH?

See ya there.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed