www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Theresian Spirituality

"You know, Mother, I have always wanted to be a saint. Alas! I have always noticed that when I compared myself to the saints, there is between them and me the same difference that exists between a mountain whose summit is lost in the clouds and the obscure grain of sand trampled underfoot by passers-by. Instead of becoming discouraged, I said to myself: God cannot inspire unreasonable desires. I can, then, in spite of my littleness, aspire to holiness. It is impossible for me to grow up, and so I must bear with myself such as I am with all my imperfections. But I want to seek out a means of going to heaven by a little way, a way that is very straight, very short, and totally new.

"We are living now in an age of inventions, and we no longer have to take the trouble of climbing stairs, for, in the homes of the rich, an elevator has replaced these very successfully. I wanted to find an elevator which would raise me to Jesus, for I am too small to climb the rough stairway of perfection. I searched, then, in the Scriptures for some sign of this elevator, the object of my desires, and I read these words coming from the mouth of Eternal Wisdom: 'Whoever is a LITTLE ONE, let him come to me.' And so I succeeded. I felt I had found what I was looking for. But wanting to know, O my God, what You would do to the very little one who answered Your call, I continued my search and this is what I discovered: 'As one whom a mother caresses, so will I comfort you; you shall be carried at the breasts, and upon the knees they shall caress you.' Ah! never did words more tender and more melodious come to give joy to my soul. The elevator which must raise me to heaven is Your arms, O Jesus! And for this I had no need to grow up, but rather I had to remain little and become this more and more." (emphasis in the original).

Story of a Soul, the Autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux, pages 207-08, John Clarke, O.C.D. (3rd ed. 1996).

JP,

St. Therese the Little Flower: she is such a saint ! As for the title of this thread, though, I'm not sure if there is anything in her writings that is specifically Byzantine spirituality. But, she is a holy woman, and her writings (especially the quotes you selected) are useful to any Christian !

-- John

We have been over this before and it in my view it detracts from the life and message of the saint and the Church to keep going on ands on this way.

XB! BB!

ICXC
NIKA

Ah! Her writings are specifically Byzantine.

Father Glenn Michael Davidovich of the Eparchy of Passaic of the Metropolia of Pittsburgh describes Byzantine Spirituality as follows: "In a sharp departure from the principles of Roman Catholic spirituality, Byzantine ... prayer, or spiritual activity, is the conversation of the intelligence with God, the green branch of sweetness and the liberation from evil, the exteriorization of joy and gratefulness. Prayer is the elevation of the intelligence to God, not in order to learn about God but to discover God; not to know about Him but to know Him, to experience God in one's own life." (emphasis added). BYZANTINE SPIRITUALITY, A Brief Explanation of the Life and Prayer of Worship According to Byzantine Tradition. http://www.dreamwater.org/edu/passaic/spirit.htm

"At the core of Therese's spirituality was her awareness of Jesus' invitation to intimacy with him in which heart speaks to heart." Praying With Therese of Lisieux, page 29, Joseph F. Schmidt, FSC (1992). According to Theresian Spirituality, 'prayer means launching out of the heart towards God; it means lifting up one's eyes, quite simply, to heaven, a cry of grateful love, from the crest of joy or the trough of despair; it's a vast, supernatural force which opens out my heart and binds me close to Jesus.'" Id. at page 80.

Theresian Spirituality is a sharp departure from the principles of Roman Catholic Spirituality. These writings are the very essence of Byzantine Spirituality, as explained by Father Davidovich, much more clearly than I could ever hope to explain. This is one of the reasons she is the patron saint of the Byzantine Catholic Church in St. Petersburg, Florida.

It becomes quite apparent over time that St. Therese is a modern Byzantine saint.

I wouldn't be quoting anything of Fr. Glenn here if you wish to retain your credibility.

Dear JPP

I love St Therese , I've been to Liseux and seent the wonderful Basilica there , and the Byzantine Icon above the Altar there , I've visited the Carmel , I've been to Alencon.

I've read 'The Story of a Soul '

BUT please I'm getting to the stage that when I see a post from you I just know that the dear little Saint is going to come into it somehow.

I'm one of these folk that if you keep hitting me over the head with something for long enough I get totally turned off.

I'm very very nearly at that stage now , and the only way I'm going to be able to avoid cracking up , is by going off Byzcath - and frankly I don't want to do that.

Please is there nothing else you can tell us about Byzantine Spirituality ?

In sorrow

Anhelyna

Also your quote is by Archbishop Jospeh Raya, of eternal memory, and the full quote is:

" In a sharp departure from the principles of Roman Catholic spirituality, Byzantine spirituality makes no distinction between private and public prayer. There is continuity between the prayers Christians recite in the assembly of the church, and the interior life by which each of them unites in the divine mystery. The Byzantine Liturgy offers to each one the seeds of contemplation he needs. In return the Church expects of each one a close participation in its prayers of praise and thanksgiving (E. Lanne, "La pri�re des Chr�tiens d'Orient")."

Which is why replacing the Divine Office and Akathist of the Byzantine Church with private devotions of Latin origin is unacceptable.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Friends,

I think it would be quite a stretch to suggest the Little Flower was "Byzantine . . ."

That she appeals to many in the East, including the Russian Orthodox emigre's in France, is a fact.

But nothing further can (or should) be said about her connection to Byzantine spirituality - I think she herself would be quite surprised about it all!

Alex

The Discalced Carmelite Nuns of the Byzantine Catholic Church apparently do not believe that their devotion to St. Therese of Lisieux is a detraction to their Byzantine Spirituality. She is prominently displayed on their website and on some of their letterhead. Located in Sugarloaf, Pennsylvania, Holy Annunciation Monastery is the only Carmelite Monastery in the Western Hemisphere belonging to an Eastern Catholic Rite. http://www.byzantinediscalcedcarmelites.com/

As far as being advised to stop posting about Theresian Byzantine Catholic Spirituality, I rely on Acts, 5, 27-32. As Gamaliel, a Pharisee in the Sanhedrin said, "[If] this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God." Acts, 5, 38-39.

Do not destroy me if you do not like my posts. Simply stop reading them as Gamaliel suggested. Alternatively, take this case to Metropolitan Basil or the Holy Father himself.

Khristos Voskres !


John Patrick Poland

I have looked at the Site you linked.

Therese is certainly featured on the Site - she is 1 of 13 Female Saints of the 17 Saints who have their photos there.

They are all wonderful people but I suspect that many Orders could produce a similar long list.


This is my last post on the subject - unless you know better

Dear Friends,

Devotion to St Therese is perfectly fine and Byzantine Carmelites and others love her - as they should!!

And (the original) Carmelite spirituality is truly linked with Eastern spirituality.

St Therese was Latin and not Byzantine. We need not stretch anything further in this regard.

Devotion to her, with icons et alia, can fit nicely in any BC parish, if they so choose.

And so can Carmelite spirituality.

That's all we can say, or need to say.

I think John Patrick Poland is pushing an unnecessary agenda here.

John, you come across as a Latin who wants to tell us Easterners about what we are from your vantage point.

That's not gentlemanly, nor is it "on" at this forum.

If you want me to report you to the Holy Father, I will and I know a Cardinal who has invited me to contact him at any time about matters of concern to me.

Only say the word, and you shall receive!

Alex

John Patrick,

No one is trying to destroy you, rather we are offering you fraternal correction which you seem unwilling or unable to take. Nobody is telling you not to have devotion to St. Therese. What we are telling you is to place it in a Byzantine context. Rather than a Novena, do a Moleben or Akathist to St. Therese. If you don't know what the latter are and you wish to be a part of Byzantine Mission it is your responsibility to seek these materials out. If you wish I could help locate or put this together for you.

Please try to see it from the flipside. What if you were in a Byzantine majority country without a Latin parish and were starting a Latin mission in a Byantine parish. Now suppose some Byzantines joined and started imposing Byzantine prayers before Mass instead of the Rosary or Novena. I think you would be quite upset.

Fr. Deacon Lance

John Patrick,

Also take time to visit the page of the Carmelite Monastery of St. Elias in France:
http://rumkatkilise.org/byzcarmel.htm

Please make note of their liturgical schedule:
Sunday:

09:35 Third and Sixth Hours
10:00 Divine Liturgy
17:00 Vespers
19:30 Compline

Weekdays:

06:00 Matins
07:00 Divine Liturgy
11:30 Third Hour, Akathist, and Sixth Hour
17:00 Vespers

Saturdays and Evenings of Feastdays

18:00 Vigil

Being Carmelite does not prevent one from being true to Byzantine tradition.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Oh!! I have been trying to figure out a way to get my name bruited about in the Vatican for a couple of months now. There's something I want to ask the Holy Father for, but being an imperfect stranger to folks over there, I'd love it if somebody dropped my name.

Would you mind, Alex?

Eli

Christ is Risen!

I hope that is true!

the unworthy,
Elias