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Dear Alice - or Dynamic Angeliki,
You have a good point there; thank you again. We must devise some method of getting ourselves into direct communication.

Meanwhile I will gladly assured anybody that

a) I am not now and never have been a Seventh-Day Adventist, of all things;

b) I am not now, never have been and have not the slightest wish to become any sort of bishop, and

c) my own dearly loved and highly respected bishop, whom I am proud to obey, does not make use of any sort of paddle!

Incognitus

My Brother Incognitus,

Surely you have just passed the sanity test.

Remember the old addage, "You have a good voice they make you a deacon, your voice goes they make you a priest, and when the mind goes ..."

I'll let you complete it according to the degrees of the priesthood.

With fraternal respect.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Incognitus,

Our esteemed Administrator knows my personal e-mail as does Father Anthony. They both have my permission to give it to you if you would like to say 'hi' without betraying your byzcath forum incognito status.

Sincerely in Christ,
Alice

P.S. Dear Father Anthony: I found the little saying you posted amusing. I am sure it allows for many a chuckle in clerical circles!

In regards to the 2 fingered sign of the cross: do they touch the head and body with the fingers or keep them vertical and trace the sign on themselves while keeping the tips up?

Father I,
we're just glad you post with us! I was just teasing you!

Dear Alice,
Watch your e-mail; I shall apply to the Administrator for his assistance.

Dear Father,
Yes, I know that saying very well! I've often thought of making myself a coat-of-arms with the motto "nolo episcopari".

Incognitus

some years ago a priest who has since gone to God after being an Archbishop for a while was telling me that the then Archbishop who outlived his succesors and assistant bishops had been having lunch in "the palace" with some of the clergy. This Archbishop rejoiced in the Christian name of Launcelot. To make matters interesting he had just been knighted by HM Queen Elizabeth II and was now 'Sir'. Bishops usually dont use the title 'Sir' bit as it is a lesser title but in Australia they did. At one stage even the Cardinal in Sydney was one, Cardinal Sir Norman Gilroy. His grace was putting up with the comments from the clerical peanut gallery very well. One of the priest decided to ask if his Grace knew the similarities between Bishops and mushrooms. HG had not heard this joke before and said so. The punch line of course is about being kept in the dark and fed with horse..... HG was clearly not amused and the look of distain said it all. Poor bishops!

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Dr. Eric,

Yes, one slightly bends the two fingers and makes the Sign of the Cross with the finger tips of ONLY the index and middle finger - that together represent Christ, of course.

To keep the two fingers straight would mean that one's elbow would really have to come out . . .

The Old Rite Orthodox also insist on one really tapping oneself strongly at all four points when making the Sign of the Cross so that the body KNOWS it is being blessed!

And, as you know, one uses the Jesus Prayer when making this Sign of the Cross (it is used with other prayers, but the Trinitarian invocation is not used "In the Name of the Father . . .").

The reason why the Old Rite Orthodox are such sticklers about using the two fingers, that represent the two Natures of the One Christ, is because they say that only Christ Himself died on the Cross and to use three fingers would indicate what they would consider to be the heresy that would say the Holy Trinity died on the cross . . .

"Lord" to one's head to signify that Christ is the Head of the Church; "Jesus Christ" on one's stomach to signify His Incarnation in the womb of the Mother of God, life and death; "Son of God" on the right shoulder to signify His resurrection and ascension to Heaven where He sits at the Right Hand of the Father; And "have mercy on us/me a sinner" on the left. Then, as the right hand is released from the left shoulder, we bow saying "Amen."

They also make it a point to cross themselves at the beginning of the prayer to the Holy Spirit "Heavenly King" and the Creed.

And they have a unique way of ending the Slavonic "Hail Mary."

The ending is "for Thou has given birth to Christ the Saviour, the Redeemer of our souls."

This is specific to the Old Rite, it is not found in the Russian New Rite. It is also the ending of the Byzantine Hail Mary that is to be found among the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Catholics.

But the Old Rite Orthodox cross themselves at the end of the Byzantine Hail Mary at the words "Christ" (forehead) "the Saviour" (stomach) "the Redeemer" (right shoulder) "of our souls" (left shoulder).

The Old Rite generally recites the Hail Mary on the three divider steps of the Lestovka as well.

Alex