www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News MP Metropolitan Discourages Veneration

Hmm, the interesting part is that who is talking with whom in Orthodoxy seems to vary on a monthly basis.

Didn't the Muscovites decide to drop Patriarch Bartholomew from their liturgical "white list" a while back because Bartholomew publicly said nice things about the Baltic churches and reacted positively to the idea of autocephaly from Moskow? Didn't the Bulgarians get (more than) the cold shoulder from Constantinople when they wanted autocephaly, and Moskow backed the Bulgarians as 'fellow Slavs'?

While I am often reminded that Holy Orthodoxy follows the Holy Canons of the Rudder, and the Holy Traditions, it seems that the Holy Howitzer is ultimately brought out to settle questions.

Ukrainians are contentious. They apparently will 'disagree' at the drop of a hat - unless there is someone from outside trying to take over- then they fight as one. (A true sign of God's blessing.)

If Ukraine had not been goaded into their by-nature factionalizing, things wouldn't be as bad today. And I suspect that the Christians of Ukraine would be potential peacemakers between East and West if they had been allowed to be the Kievan Church and vassals of neither Moskow nor Rome. (I know that this may sound Byzantinally disloyal vis-a-vis the UGCC, but I truly believe that the Kievan Church has both the ability and the right to stand on its own Patriarchal feet, with the concomitant ability to be nice to everybody.)

Blessings!

Pardon me...I'm embarrassed!

I made a TYPO when I said UOC-KP...when I meant UOC-MP (Moscow)...darn these keyboards..sometimes they're too close together .

Yes...Patriarch Filet is wonderful! I have warm feelings about him.

But deaf-intely don't have peaceful feelings about Alexy II. :rolleyes:

God bless.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Mr. Filaret Denisenko(a/k/a KP "Patriarch" Filaret) is a deposed Orthodox hierarch. I have warm and fuzzy feelings about the American vagante sedevacantist, Pope Pius XIII.

OrthodoxEast

Pope Pius XIII?

As they say in N'awlins: "Who dat?"

Blessings!

Dr. John,

www.truecatholic.org [truecatholic.org]

I'm not sure what or who you are referring to here but I would hope a better sense of charity would prevail.

What does it matter to you since the UGCC is also not "canonical" by your standards? These sorts of comments just ring hollow for Ukrainians. Do you expect us to "side" with the MP? A church that participated in the attempted liquidation of our church?

The rhetoric of Agent Drozhdov (Alexi II) and company, who by the way has never publically renounced the godless Communist system that aided and abetted his power, continues to lose weight amongst Ukrainians at home or in the diaspora. With the myriad divisions in Orthodoxy and the continued meddling of the MP attempting to subjugate its mother church of Kyiv please excuse us if Ukrainian Catholics and some Orthodox fail to take notions of "canonicity" very seriously.

If it's any consolation (it won't be!), the Moscow Patriarchate and its predecessor, the "Holy Governing Synod", also excommunicated the Old Believers (and withdrew the anathemas just over 300 years later, which makes someone very late for lunch), the Russian Church Abroad (which regards such an excommunication as beneath contempt), the Russian Metropolia in North America (now the OCA - which obtained autocephaly from the same Moscow Patriarchate despite the previous excommunication) and so forth. One could also discuss the Moscow Patriarchate's treatment of the Church of Finland, the Church of Poland, Estonia and more. Is it really so surprising that many Ukrainians regard anathemas from Moscow as less than impressive? Incognitus

Dear Incognitus, is there an ecclesial laugh test? If so the MP directives you speak of would likely not pass with Ukrainians or even John Paul II anymore. He certainly didn't take the myriad MP objections to his visit to Ukraine very seriously. The promised riots in the streets and mass chaos by the MP just never seems to have materialized.