www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Question

I dont' wish to offend, nor be sarcastic, or facetious or anything of that nature but I truly would like some discussion to make me understand why the liturgy is not uniform across the country.
Why are churches allowed to be so different in the way they bring the liturgy to their flock? I truly wonder why RC's don't all celebrate the same.

Are you refering to the situation in the western Church or are you commenting on the existence of eastern Catholics?

Firstly, with things the way they are in the western church right now, there is hardly any type of uniformity in liturgical practice. I could go to one parish in Lincoln nebraska and it would have a vastly different liturgy from a parish in L.A. or Stuebenville OH. I agree we need Liturgical uniformity in the Latin church and the best way to do that is to go back to the 1962 Missal

If you meant eastern Catholics, ever since the beginning of the Church, various liturgical rites have existsted, even in the west there was various different Liturgys. Gallican, Mozarabic, and ambrosian to name a few (and Roman of course). In the east there has always been a Byzantine (or Greek) rite using the Liturgy as it was done in Constantinople, then in the middle east they used various Liturgys as well. Even the Liturgy of Saint James, which is used by Syraic christians, Maronites, and some Byzantine Christians is slightly different in all of those churches. When these people decided to immigrate to the USA, they brought with them their own culture, spirituality, and liturgical rites. America, which is a melting pot as some might call it , of all places should have each of these churches and each of them to have their own Liturgy. What if the Pauline rite (1969 missal) was done away with and replaced with a Byzantine Liturgy and all Catholics had to go to a Byzantine Liturgy, even the syriacs and the Coptics, that would be destroying their heiritage, their culture, the Liturgy where their saints , their parents, and their ancestors attended. Each of the 21 (or is it 22) Churches in the Catholic Church has the right , nay the obligation, to use the Liturgy given to them by the Apostles that evangelized them in the first place.

I am referring to the Latin Rite - I understand the Eastern differences (as well as my little brain is able to). There are indeed many geographical, cultural differences in the East. However geography or culture doesn't seem to be the reason Latin Rite is different. They seem to do it just to be a bit different or upscale, or independent, or whatever.

Just want to put my dva sente [two cents]in:

I am sorry to say that if I were away from home and their was no Eastern Catholic or Orthodox church nearby, I'd hope to find either an Anglican or Lutheran church for Sunday morning services rather than attend a sterile Roman Mass that sounds like a bluegrass concert.

What have they done to the Latin Rite Mass and why have they turned so many once beautiful churches into big barren rooms?

To add injury to insult, Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist has been moved from its righful place on the altar to a boxlike container off in a corner. Some newer Roman churches in our part of the world don't even have a cross.

As one of our dear Latin Rite friends said as we spotted him at last year's Good Friday Services in our Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish church: I'm here because they've taken my church away from me!"

Yes, dear Pav, this is what initally brought me to the Byzantine Rite. And it's no accident either: there are subversives in key positions in the Church (including the bishopric and in the Vatican itself) who are consciously trying to destroy Catholic worship... first they replaced the Mass of Pius V with the Novus Ordo (a Protestant service, only less reverent), then they stripped the churches of anything and everything that might remind us of God-- out of sight, out of mind. This is the real reason the Tabernacle has been hidden away... we don't want Jesus distracting us. :rolleyes:

The idea is to dupe Catholics into worshiping man instead of God. Just listen to the lyrics of some of the modern RC "hymns"... the theme is, aren't we great, aren't we just wonderful."

The church building isn't the cosmos in miniature, not the Lord's House, but OUR house, the place where we "gather" for our communal "meal."

It's pretty bad when you'd attend a Protestant service before attending an RC Mass...

God bless,

Karen

Karen:
When we visited our friend in New York City, he invited us to attend Holy Eucharist at his church - St. Mary the Virgin which is a High Anglican parish.
The Mass was exceptionally beautiful and the church itself was magnificent. It was more Catholic than many of the Catholic churches are. We left there feeling so renewed. What we experienced was what the Latin Rite Mass used to be.

Karen,

Please go to:
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003756;p=5
for my retort that applies to your comment:
"...first they replaced the Mass of Pius V with the Novus Ordo (a Protestant service, only less reverent),"

Fr. Deacon Lance

I believe it. A nice couple that recently started coming to my parish are former Lutherans... when I asked about the Lutheran service (I had never been to one), they said that it was much like the new Catholic Mass, only more Catholic.

God bless,

Karen

Dear Fr. Deacon Lance,

Thanks for the link. I found your post pertaining to my comment, and read it.

I wouldn't say that the NO Mass is invalid or anything, but it was most certainly an attempt to make the Mass more palatable to Protestants. It has some major problems, which I won't elaborate on here.

Are you familiar with the Ottaviani Intervention? And what do you know about Archbishop Annibale Bugnini?

God bless,

Karen

I have only been to a Lutheran Service once and it was doen according to a German order of service and I could not help notice that that any prayers said at the altar were said with the pastors back to the people. I also saw the Wedding on TV of the Crown Prince of Denmark to his Australian bride and there also the prayers were said facing the altar. So where were Protestants who follow a set order of service conducting their services facing the people. I had been under the impression the Ambrosian rite is done facing the congregation and at the time this was what was being held up as an example. It was such a long time ago now.

ICXC
NIKA