www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Use of the word 'orthodox' during Divine Liturgy in the Greek Catholic Church

There has been discussion in the past regarding the use of the word 'orthodox' in the Greek Catholic Church.

I recently came across this explanation from Bishop Robert Moskal (Ukrainian Greek Catholic Eparchy of Parma) and thought that many of you would find it interesting.

We Ruthenians continue to use 'Christians of the true faith'. There are a few priests in our Eparchy who have the courage and intellect to use the word 'orthodox'. Too bad there are not more.

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Dear Bishop Robert,

Why do we pray for �orthodox Christians� in our Liturgy?

Curious

Dear Curious,

During the Divine Liturgy we pray for everyone. Your question undoubtedly is prompted because of some people�s understanding or perception of the term "Orthodox". The English term is derived from the Greek Orthododokeo which means to teach rightly. In a passive sense, it is applied to those who had been "rightly taught", hence "true believing". It seems to me that when this Greek term was translated into Church-Slavonic (or ancient Bulgarian), the translator misinterpreted the second half of the verb Dokeo (to teach-Doksia participle) and confused it with the Greek word (to glorify) -- Doksia (glory), so that many have come to understand the word "Orthodox" as meaning "true -- worshipers" or those "rightly glorifying God". Hence, the word: Pravoslavnyj.
Curious, are you confused by now? Who wouldn't be! Be as it may, the word "Orthodox" has been used throughout the history of the church to describe the Faith of the Church. It appears in the writings of the Fathers of the Church, as well as in the Liturgies of both the Eastern and Western Churches. In the old Latin text of the Roman Catholic Mass, the people prayed "pro orthoxis fidelibus" i.e. for "Orthodox Christians", meaning the faithful who professed the accurate teachings of the Faith. However, since the word "Orthodox" originated in the Eastern Church(es), it was and has been widely used. For us to deny that our Faith is Orthodox, would be negating or re-writing the history of the Church and the terminology which the Church has used and uses.

In modern day Ukraine, many people, not wanting to be confused with the Orthodox Church, especially the Russian Church, argue against the use of the word "Orthodox". The late Patriarch Joseph Slipyi firmly stood on the ground that we must not abandon the use of this word at all costs, because it leads to a correct understanding of our very identity. We can understand that with the gradual estrangement of Eastern Christians from Western Christians, that some misunderstanding can easily arise especially since the term "Orthodox" has shifted in popular parlance from describing The Faith to describing the Church. Nonetheless, we strive to overcome misunderstandings and continue to use the word Orthodox properly, especially in our own day and age to overcome the difficulties of the past and pray for the unity of all the true -- believers in the One Church of Jesus Christ. The communion, in the love of Christ, of all "Orthodox churches" in the Universal Church is the one, holy, apostolic and catholic Church of Jesus Christ, who is the Head of the Church. Our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, has underscored many times that we are "Orthodox in Faith, and Catholic in the bonds of love."

Yours In Christ,

+Bishop Robert

Great Fast 2004


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And what do non-Catholics mean when they say in the Creed. "We believe in the holy, catholic Church"? Same thing.

Reminds me of back in 1974 when our military base had a visitation from a priest of the Macedonian Bulgarian Church who recited the Nicene Creed using the words "one, holy, orthodox church" for whatever reason? This was definitely uncalled for!

Mike C. asks "And what do non-Catholics mean when they say in the Creed. "We beleive in the holy, catholic Church"? Same thing."

In general "non-Catholics" is rather a broad category - so far as I know, Tibetan Buddhists are not accustomed to recite the Nicene Creed at all, for example. Both Eastern Orthodox and Anglicans are wont to use the phrase "the holy Catholic Church" on occasion. It is safe to assume that they are not referring exclusively to that body which is in full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

The best way to find out what they do, in fact, mean is to ask them. The Anglicans and the Orthodox will give rather different answers.

Incognitus

Actually, the word catholic as stated in the "one holy, catholic and apostolic church" of the Nicene Creed, means ' universal ' in Greek.

Remember that the Nicene Creed preceeded the unfortunate schism of the (up until then) undivided Church.

In Christ,
Alice

I have not met EO who will not use the proper English transliteration of the Nicene. I, personally would consider that as un-catholic and un-orthodox, or their simple ignorance. Like unto the Evangelicals I had been exposed to, who , in their entreme anti-everything , had nothing to do with any thing smacking of tradition, Tradition, Catholicism, catholicism, or for that matter the stuff they did not think up, but that the next Evang-Prot church did just down the street. The only bandwagon most of them got on was bashing Catholics, Orthodox, Tradition, Liturgy, anything formal, even to 'dressing down' in church (jeans, sport shirt...NO coat or tie). Let me tell ya , thars sum mighty wacky ones out thar..! Just some of my observation and experiences there. S Bohom, mik

Early Christian writers such as Tertullian and St. Cyprian as well as St. Ignatius of Antioch , used the term "catholic" when referring to the local church. The use of "catholic" was more in line with the definition whole or complete rather than universal.

I think the answer is plain and simple, the Byzantine Church still has an identity crisis, and the clergy continue to recieve mixed messages about who we are supposed to be. I'd put money on this one, but how many people have actually visited an Orthodox Church?

We are more like the Orthodox in theology and practice than we are with the Western Catholic Church. Most would be surprised to see that the liturgy is the same, (aside from who is commemorated) and instead of "forever and ever," the Orthodox say "until ages of ages." The first time I went, I was shocked and excited. Most people don't know this and I think clergy are scared to teach them the truth because they don't have the backing of the Bishops.

A line straight from the Matins service taken from the Greek Orthodox web site has the cantor intone.... "Confirm, O God, the holy Orthodox Faith and Orthodox Christians unto ages of ages! Amen." However, when translated into our Byzantine Matins book, the Sisters of Saint Basil translate that line to read "the true faith."

For the sake of our church, we really need to stop this nonesense, and teach and speak the truth. Kudos to any priest willing to take us in the right direction, whether directed by his Bishop or not.

Cathy,
I don't know how many BCs every visited an Orthodox church, but I find it hard to believe that more than a handful would be surprised to find the similarity between our practice and that of Orthodox churches. My guess is that it is precisely that awareness - sharpened by the difficult history of schism in America - else that accounts for the circumlocution here. I don't know how many people are still living in the Archeparchy who would have strong feelings on this matter anymore; perhaps you do have a better sense of it. But I think this is a simple matter to leave in the hands of Bishops. kudos to priests who serve their flocks with wisdom.

Wisdom means to be able to discern what is true, and to to have a plan or course of action based upon that truth. The Pope has already told us what our plan should be based upon the truth of who the Eastern Churches are, we just don't have anyone courageous enough to carry it out.

Hmmm...and look where it's gotten us so far...not very far.

The next chance you get, ask your parish priest what the "plan" is...if he can't tell you, well, there probably isn't one. Trust me, I've asked, and sadly I've been told there isn't one.

Actually it means more; it also embraces charity or what JPII called pastoral sensitivity. But that sort of thing, which might actually entail some deferring to others, is just so passe.

Where are you trying to get? From my perspective, what has been gotten is the animation of the spiritual lives of my forebearers and contemporaries. Not all, but many, many. I suppose there are other goals that one might have, but I really don't know what could compare.

You seem troubled about many things.

A Byzantine Catholic friend of mine recently took a job with a local funeral home. Part of his work brought him for the first time into local Greek, Serbian and Russian Orthodox Churches.

He was astonished, to find the Orthodox services to be identical to the ones he knew from his Byzantine parish. While he felt lost, and feeling very much out of place, during the funerals at the Roman Catholic and Protestant Churches.

He was always told that the Orthodox were traitors and our enemy, but he asked, why are they our enemy, when they are just like us?

The only thing I'm troubled about is the future of my church. We're at a crossroads and the whole Orthodox/Catholic debate is a huge part of it.

Where am I trying to get? I think, from talking to many people in my age group, we hope to have a church that is consistent in its teachings, and liturgical practices. When you have Byzantine Churches still offering 'first communion,' others still not celebrating Matins or Vespers, and churches without icon screens (one specifically that has a communion rail), all because that's "not the way we remember it," we have problems.

How many people remember it excatly the same way? And whose way is correct? That's what I'm looking for, a Bishop or Archbishop who comes out and says, this is what we're going to do and this is how we're going to do it. I guess in one word, leadership.

Cathy, I think you make a fine point.

But on that point, I think that there is a broad plan for all of us to reclaim our particular heritage. But, because each parish is different in its history, and its present means, I don't expect that the central administration should even try to micromanage the restoration.

If I compare the present to the days of my youth, what is possible now the difference is remarkable. I couldn't conceive of doing vespers or matins or extended propers thirthy years ago, because the music (and English) was just not available. Now that has changed dramatically. Can all parishes take advantage of it? That depends on the musicianship of the cantors. But the possibilities for cantor traning have dramatically changed as well. (Not to mention deacon training.) Many churches have adopted a far more Eastern look; and there is every reason to expect that over time all will. Even my cradle parish in Johnstown.

It is worthwhile, even while looking to further the objective of reclaiming our heritage, to acknowledge progress and celebrate success.

Cathy, the parish of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese I attended used the now and forever and ever.