www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Newbie Looking Into Eastern Catholicism

Thanks for the welcoming, Our Lady's slave of love!

Dear Jennifer:

I was expecting your list of queries to include the inevitable question: "Why do you (Easterns) cross yourselves the 'wrong' way?"

Amado,
A Roman Catholic lifer, initially exchanging suspicious, and then meaningful, glances with the East.

Jennifer,

I see you have gotten some wonderful answers. Of course, as a Melkite deacon I would strongly encourage you to visit either of our Melkite parishes in Rhode Island (well, technically in Rhode Island and the Providence Plantations, but nobody uses the full name anymore...)

Let me see if I can answer some of your questions:

A celibate priesthood does, indeed, exist in the Eastern Churches, but it was originally for monastics. Yes, occasionally there would be celibate parish priests (diocesan clergy), but that was rare. The Latinization that is mentioned is that in the United States and Canada there was enforced celibacy -- we Byzantines were not allowed to have married priests to serve us.

In our Byzantine tradition we served more than just the Divine Liturgy. Of nearly equal importance was Vespers and a service called "Orthros" which is a combination of Matins and Lauds. In many parishes across the United States these services have been suppressed and replaced with Benediction, the rosary or some other devotion.

In this case I'm not sure what the author was referring to. For us, the Presanctified Liturgy is celebrated during Great Lent (just plain Lent to Latin Rite Catholics, but we have other periods of fasting so we distinguish the Lenten fast by calling it "Great Lent") on weekdays since the Divine Liturgy should only be served on Sundays of Great Lent.

The Epiklesis is the time in the Anaphora or Eucharistic Prayer when the Holy Spirit is invoked. For Latin Rite Catholics the "momement" of consecration occurs during the Institution Narrative when the priest says "this is my Body" and "this is my Blood" -- but for us Easterners there is no "momement" defined as we tend to look to the entire Anaphora or, if pushed, to the time of the Epiklesis.

If you look at the full Divine Litirgy you will see that there is a long litany and then several shorter litanies (three). By "truncation" the author is probably referring to the practice of eliminating one, two or all three of these "little litanies."

Normally the Mystery of Holy Crowning (marriage) is celebrated by itself. It is not, and should not be, a part of the Divine Liturgy. And, in fact, for us Byzantines there is no exchange of vows -- that is added to the rite to allow for legal requirements. And, no, Holy Communion is not given at marriages.

Yes, antidorion is blessed bread, sometimes from the loaf that was used during the prothesis or preparation liturgy when the bread and wine to be used in the Liturgy are prepared. It may also be separate bread, usually in memory of a deceased person. It is given after the Liturgy when the people are leaving. Traditionally they will go kiss the hand cross held by the priest and take a piece of the blessed bread. One does not need to be "in a state of grace" to take the bread.

During the Liturgy a pot of water is kept heating on the diaconium or deacon's altar. At what the Latin's call the "fraction rite" (the host is broken) the priest will break the Lamb into four parts. He will put one in the chalice and then the deacon or, in his absence, the priest will pour some hot water from the Zeon (a small tea pot). It has been eliminated in some places since no Latin Church does this.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear Jennifer, welcome!

Some info: (so, yes, according to this, you can go and hear the DL in English!)

St. Michael
Legal Title: St. Michael's Ukrainian-Catholic Church, Diocese of Stamford
Pastor: Rev. Msgr. Roman Golemba
Address: 394 Blackstone St., Woonsocket, R.I. 02895-1917
Link to map: Click Here
Phone: (401) 762-2733
Saturday Evening Liturgy: 5 p.m. English
Sunday Divine Liturgy: 11 a.m. Ukrainian
Holy Day Divine Liturgies: 6 p.m. on Eve and 9 a.m. on Feast
Weekday Liturgy: 9 a.m.
Confessions: Before any Divine Liturgy


And, once having received Holy Communion at Baptism, a child continues to receive the rest of his or her life, as they are part of the Church, and sacraments of the Church are denied to no part of the Body of Christ.

Again, welcome!
Gaudior

Yes, Jennifer. We should have kept with it as I do say in the rest of my post. Also trying to rectify it now and learning from our own mistakes. Yes, I am very aware of the non-ecumenism in as you say, "the spectre of Christianity" and too bad too because we all have so much more in common than not. Ps. 133.

Christ has risen. Indeed, He has risen.

Porter>who often needs portering. aka Mary Jo

Hmm - some folk have all the luck.

Here I have either GO in Greek or UGCC in Ukrainian [ I suspect] and in Lourdes I have UGCC in Ukrainian [ not even French there ]

Anhelyna

Bless, Father Deacon Ed!

The RC's have suppressed the Hours in a number of their parishes?

Why would they do that?

Creeping sacerdotalism among the laity or something like that?

What if a group of Catholics wanted to meet regularly to celebrate the Hours - would they need permission for that?

I'll read your reply in two weeks, so take your time . . .

Alex

Alex,

They've "suppressed" it by not offering it, at all. I suppose if individuals wanted to gather to pray the hours that would be permitted by most parishes, but probably not by all. I know that in my Latin parish we were serving Vespers only one night a month, and that dwindled until no one was there, so it's not served at all. Heck, even the clergy can't get together to pray the hours together!

Edward, deacon and sinner

Hi Jennifer,

The list of latinizations to which you refer was compiled several years back and essentially describes practice in many US Eastern Catholic parishes prior to the 1970s (the specific list was based on practices at St. George's Melkite parish in Milwaukee in that time frame).

When Archbishop Joseph Tawil, of blessed memory, was appointed as Melkite Exarch in 1970, we undertook a major effort to eliminate latinizations and return to our traditional practices; this initiative reformed much of what is contained in the list. Some of what is described there continues to be the norm in individual parishes (and occasionally throughout an eparchy) of some other Eastern Catholic jurisdictions.

Deacon Ed has pretty much addressed the issues about which you asked and essentially all of what he said applies to other Eastern Catholic Churches, besides the Melkites. Let me add just a couple of points.

Historically, as Deacon Ed noted, our Churches were served by both married and unmarried clergy. Among the unmarried clergy were the monks, although they were not the only celibates, and priests ordained to the episcopacy were drawn from the celibate clergy, either secular or monastic. No, celibacy would not have been viewed as "the ideal" - but, neither would the clerical married state. They were and are two different styles of life in service - with neither considered to be a "better" way of doing so.

Married clergy became an issue in the early 20th century, when Eastern Catholics first began immigrating to the US in any numbers, as many of the priests who followed to serve their spiritual needs were married. The primarily Irish and German hierarchy of the Latin Church was less than accepting of these and frequently denied them faculties. This was one factor in the loss of entire parishes from Eastern Catholicism to their Eastern Orthodox counterparts and a major consideration in the establishment of one US-based Orthodox jurisdiction (the American Carpatho-Russian Greek Orthodox Catholic Diocese).

In the late 20's, Rome formally decreed that Eastern Catholics in the diaspora were not permitted to be served by married clergy. In recent years, some Eastern Catholic jurisdictions in the US and Canada have sent men back to the "old country" to be ordained and later return here. More recently, the Melkites (and, I believe, some Ukrainian eparchies in Canada) have ordained married men in North America - a decision with which Rome has now seemingly elected not to take issue.

Deacon Ed wasn't certain as to what the author was referring. I believe it was the not uncommon practice (pre-1970s) (at least in Melkite parishes) of reserving the consecrated Body and Blood and serving the Presanctified Liturgy on days (weekdays - not within Great Lent) when the Typikon would have called for the Divine Liturgy to be served.

Deacon Ed addressed weddings, but not the Funeral Service. Traditionally, the Funeral Service was not performed within the Divine Liturgy, but such had become the case in the US. However, this practice generally turned out to be too in-grained in the Americanized psyche to be reformed. An effort by Archbishop Joseph to require separation of the two was short-lived and generally unsuccessful. Altho I believe that a couple of our parishes with very traditional pastors may adhere to the separation, most serve the Liturgy with the Funeral Service, unless a family wishes otherwise. Communion is not given at Funeral Services nor at Liturgies served with the Funeral Service.

Hope the added info is useful.

BTW, I can also attest to the friendliness of St. Michael's Ukrainian parish in Woonsocket, at least when I last was there. That was probably 10-12 years ago - when Archimandrite Jim King, one of our priests, and our Archdeacon Yany were serving it because their pastor had been badly injured. They were a very welcoming and warm community (and served great pirohis in the parish hall ). It's an old church, converted from either Latin or Protestant use, unless they've rebuilt since then.

Many years,

Neil

dear BeenaBobba:

Christ is Risen!

yes you are quite correct.

As Greek (Byzantine) Catholics, we basically follow the Orthodox Tradition and discipline, since we are basically "Orthodox who are in Communion with Rome" or "Orthodox in Communion with Rome" (for short).

So we try to fast from at least from Midnight.

The 1 hour fast wouldn't work for us, because our Liturgy goes for at least 1.5 hours, so if we operated on the 1 hour fast discipline, one could have a sandwich after the homily and still go to Communion. There are some who even hold that we should fast from Sat. night Vespers.

One explanation between the difference between the unleavened bread of the Latins and our leavened bread (as prescribed by the 1st Ecumenical Council of Nicea {apparently}) is that the Latins follow the Synoptic Gospels where the Mystical Supper is the Passover, whereas the Byzantine Churches follow St. John's Gospel, where the Passover fell on Great and Holy Friday, and thus Jesus on the Cross is the Passover Sacrifice.

Hope this helps.

Herb

Neil,

Thanks for picking up what I missed. I do have to note, however, that I've never attended a Melkite funeral celebrated in the context of the Divine Liturgy. Perhaps we on the West Coast are a little different from the East Coast? I don't know...

Edward, deacon and sinner

Deacon Ed,

Actually, I don't really think you missed anything. I just figure you're too young to have remembered the Presanctified issue (it had become somewhat the equivalent of offering a pre-Vatican II Latin weekday Low Mass). And, I was concerned about Jennifer wondering if we saw celibacy as the "ideal". As to the Funeral Service/Divine Liturgy issue, I very much recollect the stir it caused when Archbishop Joseph issued that instruction - little did I know that the West Coast heeded it.

Oh, Deacon Ed,

We all know that you on the West Coast are a little different from we "normal folk" :rolleyes: back East .

Couldn't resist - you set yourself up for that one :p

Actually, I'm not sure about the difference we're seeing here. Incognitus and I were reminiscing a few months back about Archbishop Joseph's short-lived decree intended to "correct" this, the hulabaloo it caused, and the return of things to business as usual (the only time that Archbishop Joseph gave up or lost a battle, in my recollection). My impression was that - with the exception of a couple of parishes (which I won't single out) whose pastors are very conservative - the tendency in the Eparchy now was toward the service of Divine Liturgy with the Funeral Service (obviously, we did not serve the Divine Liturgy in conjunction with Archbishop Joseph's Funeral Service).

I'll scout around and see what I can find out, because now I'm curious.

Many years,

Neil

Jennifer,

For centuries, one who was a member of a particular religious group within Eastern Catholicity was spoken of as being of the ____ Rite (e.g., Melkite, Ruthenian, Ukrainian). Several years ago, Rome finally acknowledged that what had been termed "Rites" were actually Churches. Thus, the Catholic Church is comprised of 22 self-governing Eastern Churches (also termed Churches sui iuris or "Churches of their own law"), which together with the Latin or Roman Church, constitute the Catholic Church.

Each Church sui iuris worships according to a particular Rite. A simple definition of a Rite is that it is the collected form of ritual, ceremony, and prayers according to which the members of a Church conduct their worship and other liturgical services. To some extent, Rites reflect the cultures in which they developed.

Western Catholics use the Latin Rite (with a few exceptions that in modern parlance would probably be better styled as "Usages"). Eastern Rites developed from the customs and style of worship practiced in what were the 3 most important centers of Christian development other than Rome (i.e., Alexandria, Antioch, and Byzantium. This happened at a time when achieving uniformity of liturgical practice was hampered by the limitations imposed by geography and primitive communication.

Depending on where you read - and who's writing -you can find lists indicating that there are anywhere from 3 to 7 Eastern Rites. It really depends on where in history each writer drew a line in the sand and said - "This is the point at which Rites were fully developed - all that came afterward were just variations".

From the purist's perspective, there are only 3 Eastern Rites - Alexandrian, Antiochene, and Byzantine.

But, as those three were carried back to other cities, modifications occurred. Two of the variations developed in relatively isolated geographic regions and, as a result, underwent such modification that they came to be deemed Rites unto themselves - those of the Armenians and Maronites.

Those five are what most would agree are the Eastern Rites.

But, at the other end of the spectrum from the purists are those who would count 7 Eastern Rites: Byzantine; Armenian; Maronite; East Syrian and West Syrian (otherwise considered as separate "Traditions" within the Antiochene Rite); and Coptic and Ethiopian (otherwise considered as separate "Traditions" within the Alexandrian Rite).

In between the 2 extremes, you can find every possible combination: those who don't consider the Maronite Rite separately (counting it within the West Syrian Tradition of the Antiochene Rite, where it originated); those who don't consider the Armenian Rite separately (counting it as a variation within the Byzantine Rite, where it originated); and those who consider both, but would break the Antiochene out into East and West Syrian; etc..

As alluded to above, less drastic changes within Rites came to be termed "Traditions". Thus, the Antiochene Rite is further divided into the East and West Syrian Traditions. The Alexandrean Rite is comprised of the Coptic and Ge'ez Traditions. The Byzantine Rite, largest of the Eastern Rites, has the Byzantine-Greek and Byzantine-Slav Traditions. The Maronite and Armenian Rites are each utilized only by a single Church sui iuris, so, within those two, there is no further breakdown.

"Rescensions" are further variations due to the ethno-cultural differences among the faithful of the Churches within a Tradition.

There is another breakdown, termed a "Usage". In the Latin Church, it is applied to "the Anglican Usage", the ritual forms and prayers permitted to be employed by certain congregations of faithful who returned to communion with Rome from the Anglican or Episcopalian Church. The term hasn't really been applied to the Eastern Rites until now; however, there is presently one historical instance in the Eastern Churches where it could probably be applied pretty aptly (i.e., the Knanaites of the Syro-Malabarese Church), and another of recent vintage (i.e., the Aramaic and Arabic "parties" within the Chaldean Church) to which it might have application.

Many years,

Neil

Jennifer,

Yes. Here's a list of the Eastern Churches sui iuris and the Rite used by each; they're grouped by hierarchical type:

Patriarchal Churches sui iuris

Armenian Catholic Church
[Armenian Rite - originated as Byzantine Rite in the Byzantine-Greek Tradition]

Chaldean Catholic Church
[Antiochene Rite - East Syrian Tradition]

Coptic Catholic Church
[Alexandrian Rite - Coptic Tradition]

Maronite Catholic Church
[Maronite Rite - originated as Antiochene Rite in the West Syrian Tradition]

Melkite Greek-Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Greek Tradition]

Syriac (or Syrian) Catholic Church
[Antiochene Rite - West Syrian Tradition]

Major Arch-Episcopal Churches sui iuris

Syro-Malabarese Catholic Church
[Antiochene Rite - East Syrian Tradition]

Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Metropolitan Arch-Episcopal & Arch-Eparchial Churches sui iuris

Ethiopian Catholic Church
[Alexandrian Rite - Ge'ez Tradition]

Romanian Greek-Catholic Church United with Rome
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Syro-Malankarese Catholic Church
[Antiochene Rite - West Syrian Tradition]

Episcopal Churches sui iuris

Byzantine Albanian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Greek Tradition]

Byzantine Bulgarian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Byzantine Croatian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Byzantine Greek Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Greek Tradition]

Byzantine Hungarian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Byzantine Italo-Graeco-Albanian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Greek Tradition]

Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church
(Eparchy of Muka�evo)
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Byzantine Slovakian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Churches sui iuris without hierarchy

Byzantine Belarussian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Byzantine Georgian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Greek Tradition]

Byzantine Russian Catholic Church
[Byzantine Rite - Byzantine-Slav Tradition]

Many years,

Neil

Jennifer,

BTW, there's also a Maronite Catholic Church in Rhode Island.

St. George Maronite Church
50 Main Street
Pawtucket, RI 02860
Rev. Paul Mooawad
401 723-8444

Schedule:
Saturday - 5:00 PM
Sunday - 10:00 AM

Many years,

Neil