www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News MP Metropolitan Discourages Veneration

Dear Diak,

How are you today?

Actually, I met with Yuschenko when he was here, as I said, and congratulated him on coming out to venerate the Shroud when it was in Kyiv.

He said, "How could I not . . ?"

Yes, if he took over, things would change.

As you know, the UOC-MP really does consider the UOC-KP to be completely without grace, including their baptisms . . .

It is clear, it seems to me (but if you don't think so, that's O.K. by me! ), that the Ukie government favours the canonical UOC-MP over and above the "false patriarch Filaret and his minions that have broken away from the Mother Church and have taken themselves and their followers into schism and eternal darkness . . ."

But maybe I'm reading things into such statements?

And, FYI, I really WOULD support this Forum helping to send Trad Lat to Jordanville for a few weeks!

Have a great day, Venerable Father in Christ!

sinful Alex

Funny, I thought Ruthenians were Ukie Hillbillies that just spoke Ukrainian incorrectly.
I've got to talk to my father again.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

Now THAT really is offensive!

Some of them speak PERFECT Ukrainian!

really sinful Alex

Dear Diak:

Don't bet on it, yet!

Alex has a hidden list and I was #1 (and all latinizers) on that list; I think you were #2 and the Admin was #3!

AmdG

Now that you mentioned it, there may be a couple of Ruthenians infiltrated in my choir disguised as Ukrainians. I've got to check that out in our next rehearsal. They are very tricky people you know, you could hardly notice the difference.
Lauro

Lauro, if you can't harmonize with them, then indeed they are Ruthenians.

Wait, don't Ukrainians fall under the Ruthenian category (since Ruthenian is an ecclesiastical, not ethnic, term)?

Administrator, you wrote: "when Pope John Paul II has taught that even the word 'schism' is too strong to describe the separation". Could you please tell me where JP wrote that. I don't doubt you. I would like to read it and anything else he may have written like it on the seperation. Thanks

OrthodoxCatholic<<As you know, the UOC-MP really does consider the UOC-KP to be completely without grace, including their baptisms . . .>>

I don't know about their baptisms, Alex, but *NO* canonical Orthodox Church recognizes the UOC-KP. The KP is considered schismatic. Surely YOU of all people are aware of this.

Orthodox East

OrthodoxEast,

I thought I read somewhere that the Bulgarian Church had recognized them, since they too went through the same thing with Constantinople.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance

Dear Lance,
You are correct. Last week in Kyiv the Bulgarian Patriarchate and the Montenegin Orthodox Church sent representatives to the UOC-KP and they celebrated the liturgy together.
Now that's cool.
Lauro

Dear All:

This, of course, begs the question of who decides who is "schismatic" or "cannonical" or whatever.

It seems to me that in the case of the UOC-KP, Constantinople doesn't want to pi** off Moscow, so it has black-listed the UOC-KP.

More and more and more and more we see that Ukrainians have to start being our own best friends and stop looking to the First Rome, Second Rome or (God Forbid!) Third Rome to assert our identify for us.

As for the Patriarchal Center, I hope that the interior view projects show only the construction phase and that icons will be properly written upon those walls.

Yours,

kl

Dear OrthodoxEast,
I got this from the official site of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate. I'm sorry that's it's in Ukrainian though. If you don't understand it take it to a Ukrainian church and you'll find someone who will translate it for you, but if you want to do something really radical and adventurous take it to the nearest Russian Orthodox Church and ask someone to translate it for you.
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Lauro

The Bulgarian Orthodox Church under Patriarch Maxim has not recognized the KP. The article mentions Metropolitan Innocent of Sofia who is independant of the Bulgarian Patriarchate.

Thanks, Chtec. I've found that one must always check the sources in this forum for their validity. The Montenegrin Church is also neither autocephalous nor fully autonomous, unless the original poster has got another schismatic and uncanonical "Orthodox" church, from the Orthodox POV, in mind. Some Greek Catholics here, sad to say, apparently will side with whomever agrees with them (schismatics and vagantes too), canonical or not.

OrthodoxEast