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With respect to all this fuss over the differences between western and eastern expressions of Christianity, I would like to add a few observations I have made (and I'm always open to the possibility that I'm wrong, so I'm offering these observations as opinions). Western Christians, particularly those who like to think of themselves as being ecumenically minded, often downplay the differences. A good example is the filioque controversy. Many Roman Catholics (and Protestants as well) just don't see this as a big deal. However, when I took a course on Trinitarian theology and was exposed to the Orthodox objections, I learned that it is a very serious difference on a very important theological question. On the other hand, I think Eastern Christians (Orthodox and Catholic alike) sometimes exaggerate the differences. One example is the question of theosis. Theosis is certainly more front-and-center, so to speak, in Eastern Christian approaches to soteriology. However, some Eastern Christians speak about it as if it is completely foreign to Roman Catholic theology, and it certainly is not. There are numerous theologians in the Roman Catholic tradition who have articulated a doctrine of theosis; also, it is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (see Part I, article 3, paragraph 1). Another example is the generalization that the Incarnation is given more significance in the East, while the Crucifixion is in the West. This is one of those generalizations that has a great deal of basis in reality--but I would suggest that too much is made of it sometimes and the approaches are complementary, not competitive. If Jesus of Nazareth were just another man and not God Incarnate, then his crucifixion would be of no salvific significance whatsoever. On the other hand, to deny the importance of the Crucifixion in God's plan of salvation is to deny the teachings of Holy Scripture, as well as the teachings of many Fathers of the Church, both Eastern and Western. There are certainly differences between East and West. There are different liturgies, there are different theological emphases, there are different codes of canon law. But let us not lose sight of the fact that Holy Scripture teaches, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all who is above all and through all and in all" (Eph. 4:4-6). IMO, we are all impoverished by failing to recognize and give thanks to our great God and Savior Jesus Christ for the spiritual riches of both East and West.

Okay, let me ask, what are the real differences bewtween Eastern and Western Catholicism? I mean besides the different liturgies, canon laws, and emphases. None of those are essentials; I could get use to a change in any of those, but what I really want to know is what would I as a Westerner likely find to be theologically problematic in the Eastern tradition (with adherence to Rome being a given).

Joint Orthodox and Catholic Consultation [usccb.org]

Here you will find, second list of urls down, a whole list of joint Orthodox-Catholic accords and some description of the body of bishops, clergy and scholars who come together to discuss our similarities and differences. Toward the bottom of the list you will find the discussion on one Baptism and on the Filioque.

You will see that as we continue our bilateral discussions that the differences between us with respect to core truths are not truly threatening to the life of the soul, nor are they so severe so as to have no resolution.

Please take seriously the list of books that I offered even if you do not take me seriously as a person. I apologize to you for any confusion that you may have encountered here on my account.

Add to that list this catechetical work in which you will find doctrine that is clearly in line with the CCC.

Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: The Mystery of Faith

Also add to that list this text which is a compilation of white papers presented and compiled in 2003-2004 in preparation for the bilateral discussions on the Petrine Ministry beginning this fall. You will want to keep an eye out for news of them.

The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity: The Petrine Ministry. Catholics and Orthodox in Dialogue

There is a great deal for you to digest and sift and sort out. Part of it will come by word of mouth as it does here, but much will have to come from your own reading.

Another text that will help you as a Catholic is

Pope Benedict XVI writing as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger: Principles of Catholic Theology

Eli

Dear Everyman,

With respect to your original question about the minsiterial priesthood, I think you ought to spend time for several readings of the following book. It is still the core teaching on the priesthood, east and west, and has never been supplanted by any better.

St. John Chrysostom: Six Books on the Priesthood

Another one that will help you to explore the root of eastern Catholic [and by that I mean both Orthodox and Catholic] theology, spirituality and doctrine, and which is written in very clear and beautiful prose is:

Archbishop Basil Krivocheine: In the Light of Christ. St. Symeon the New Theologian

All the book titles I have offered are available on the most well known on-line book distributor.


Eli

In my opinion, there are two big differences between Eastern and Western Catholicism: demographics and tradition.


Demographics.

Western Catholicism (in the Roman Catholic Church) has about 1 billion members. Eastern Catholicism (in all its twenty-some sui juris churches) has, approximately, 16 million members. (See http://www.cnewa.org/source-images/Roberson-eastcath-statistics/eastcatholic-stat06.pdf)

That enormous demographic difference -- 1 billion people versus 16 million people-- carries profound practical differences. The Eastern Catholic Churches are tiny minorities within the Catholic Church. However, while Eastern Catholic parishes are often small, they can be true communities; in contrast, Western Catholic parishes are often large, and community must often be built around some special activity or devotion. Also, many (most?) Western Catholics do not know of the existence of the Eastern Catholics. Also, the relatively tiny numbers of Eastern Catholics generally have a correspondingly tiny influence upon the Catholic Church overall. Also, in the U.S., it is often difficult to find an Eastern Catholic parish (at all, regardless of which sui juris church) outside of certain metropolitan areas; however, it is often easy in the U.S. to find a Roman Catholic parish: Roman Catholic parishes are almost everywhere in the U.S. That factor alone has probably led to many Eastern Catholics becoming Roman Catholics over time in America. Etc.


Tradition.

Western Catholicism follows the tradition of Christianity that developed in Western Europe and parts of Central Europe and which was grounded in the city (and bishop) of Rome. Eastern Catholicism follows the Christian tradition that developed in the Middle East, Greece, and Eastern Europe and its various main cities (Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch, Constantinople) and their bishops. The same basic points of doctrine are (supposed to be) believed by Eastern Catholics and Western Catholics, but their theologies and liturgies and ways of expressing those same points can be quite different. That difference in tradtion comes, perhaps, mostly from a difference in mindset. The Western tradition tends to emphasize a cataphatic mindset: i.e., a more exterior view and practice of the Gospel. Eastern Christianity tends to emphasize a more apophatic mindset: i.e., a more interior view and practice of the Gospel. Hence, for example, the basic understanding of theology is different in the Christian East than the Christian West. The Christian West, over the last 1000 years or so, has generally and increasingly regarded theology as an intellectual endeavor: knowledge and ideas about God. The Christian East (in my opinion) tends to view theology as the direct personal experiential knowldge of God; intellection is seen, then, as a kind of reflection on theology but not the same as theology. Put another way, Western Christians "do" theology at universities and seminaries; Eastern Christians seek to acquire theology: often at monasteries but always in the human heart. Etc.

So, to recap, I would say that demographic and tradition are the two biggest differences between Eastern Catholics and Western Catholics.

-- John

Eli has touched upon it, although tangentially: the "Petrine Ministry," how it should be exercised in today's world!

Primacy of Peter > Primacy of the Pope > Pope's Primacy of Jurisdiction > Pope's Supremacy of Jurisdiction, coupled with Papal Infallibility.

Essentially, Eastern Catholics have the same view as the Orthodox (Eastern and Oriental) re the Papacy.

Hang on to your seat, the Joint Catholic-Orthodox International Commission is set to resume dialogue this Fall, hosted by the Eastern Orthodox in Belgrade, with serious discussions on the foregoing seemingly insurmountable "hurdle" to re-union.

Amado

While there certainly is a generalized merit to what you are saying here, John, I believe it is most often overstated. If you follow this link [groups.yahoo.com] and join up, you will find a very interesting discussion going on currently between a Greek Orthodox monk and an ex-Trappist brother comparing their monastic experiences along the lines that you express broadly here. I think you would be very interested in what they have to say. I have been following it for some time now. The owner of the list has asked us not to break in or interrupt the flow of their dialogue until they are finished. I am finding it fascinating to hear the lived experiences of both men. You may have to go back and read the archives. It threads nicely because it is an uninterrupted dialogue.

Eli

Eli,

I went to the link, but it is a closed discussion group. Any way we can get some the material posted in transcript?

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

You can subscribe and read on line. It is too long by now to post it all here. Yahoo allows you to set your subscription to no-mail so that you won't get mail in your in-box but you will have access to the archives and posting privileges.

Let me know if that's still a problem.

Eli

Dear Friends,

FYI, I withdraw my rude comments to Eli above as the matter was my fault.

And I thank my brother, Eli, for his understanding and forgiveness of my sinful self.

God bless you, sir!

Alex

Dear Everyman,

There are SOME individuals I've helped move from West to East who have personally told me they had trouble with the notion of "Theosis."

They also didn't quite like the East's distinctive view of Christ's Death on the Cross and its effect on our salvation. The West sees it as satisfaction for the offense given to God by Original Sin and our general sinfulness.

The East sees it in terms of "propitiation" and this is discussed in depth in my favourite Orthodox dogmatic theologian, Fr. Michael Pomazansky in his book, yes, "Orthodox Dogmatic Theology!"

If you really want to be a priest in the Eastern Church, and you have all the necessary prerequisites - for heaven's sake, what are you waiting for?

And if they don't accept you in one EC Church, then go on to the next, and then to the next . . .

The only prerequisite to be a priest in the UGCC is that you: a) fulfill the seminary requirements; and b) don't hate Ukrainians.

If you can manage those two things, then you are well on your way - they'll find you an English-language parish, by the way.

You don't need to learn Ukrainian, but you could always say a few words with a Ukrainian-sounding accent just to make the old folks feel at home . . .

And, to tell you the truth, my initial reticence about Eli's attendance at Orthodox liturgy is really all about . . . the real threat of my becoming Orthodox if I started doing that myself . . .

I can resist anything but temptation!

Ciao!

Alex

Since this thread was originally posted two years ago, I have done a bit of studying that has brought me more up-to-snuff regarding the Eastern tradition. And as I experience it more and more, I see that my beliefs and natural sensibilities line up more with Eastern Christianity than with those of the West.

But, alas, there are no Eastern Catholic churches in my area, and moving doesn't seem very tangible at the moment. So I suppose simply continuing to attend mass at my local Roman Catholic church and occasionally dipping into the local Orthodox Vespers for an Eastern taste will have to suffice for now.

That's probably a good idea. I have moved to a city where there are only Latin and Maronite Catholics so my transferring to a Byzantine parish is out of the question for now.

Hi Alex, I too, am interested. I don't hate Ukrainians... PS: I love all people, and beautiful Ukrainian women too :P

I want to go to seminary anyways. Is there a good MDiv programme in Australia? Beginning this Friday, I'll be based in Perth. I've got 2 Byzantine Churches at my disposal and any help will be much appreciated. :P

By the way, on a more serious note, I can deal with a full-on Ukrainian parish. I don't mind. Throw me into the deep oceans. I'll emerge swimming... with fish.

Although, I hope that they allow me to start an English apostolate, get involved with campus ministry,
a non-liturgical music ministry, a Bible study program according to the lectionary, and possibly a monthly magazine. I can't do this alone but I would love to get these ideas across for approval and involvement.

I'm only 22 by the way. There's just so much to do anyways. Time to worry about getting my graduate degree in Science first.

The best book I've ever read on the priesthood is Fulton Sheen's "The Priest is Not His Own."

And he's not even Orthodox!

Best book, bar none.