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#64111 09/12/03 11:15 AM
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Excuse the elementary question. I am a Roman Catholic and having trouble understanding why I must suffer or �pay� for my sins? I hear that it satisfies God�s justice, however, I though that is what Jesus� death did. I thought the agony of His death paid our debt of sin. I thought God wanted to just forgive us but needed to send his Son to satisfy His holy justice.
I understand the concept that good works earn merits in heaven. I understand that I will need a �theosis� or purifying upon entrance to heaven. But the concepts of doing penance and/or suffering a purgatory to atone for my sins I don�t get.

Example, If I forgive someone who has done me wrong, I don�t ask or expect them to repay me or do penance. I just forgive them.
Am I just not missing something? Any ideas about this from the Eastern & Orthodox perspective?

#64112 09/12/03 11:33 AM
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MKE,

I would say that the Eastern understanding of penance is that it is given that we might strengthen ourselves to overcome our inclinations to sin. Penance is not so much punitive as medicinal. This is why tradtionally the Sacrament of Penance is not done anonymously and to just any priest, but face to face with one's spiritual father. Only one who knows us can evaluate our progress and what penance might be helpful in helping us overcome our sins. The Mysteries, just like Salvation, are Christ's free gifts to us. We do not merit them or earn them, but we must cooperate with them. To express contrition without trying to change our sinful habits is hypocritical. It is changing our sinful habits that our penances, and indeed also our ascetical practices, are aimed at or at least they should be.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance


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#64113 09/12/03 12:59 PM
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From the catechism of the Catholic Church http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/healing.html# :
Quote
...sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the 'eternal punishment' of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the 'temporal punishment' of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.[Cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1712-1713; (1563): 1820.]

The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the 'old man' and to put on the 'new man.'[Eph 4:22, 24 .]
Somehow in these times we can have trouble with the idea that (temporary) punishment is medicinal. O tempores, o mores

#64114 09/12/03 01:51 PM
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Dear Sub-deacon Lance,
I liked your explanation as to penance, when you said that it is not to be taken as something punitive but rather medicinal.
Although I must confess that I don't have the courage to confess my sins looking face to face with the pastor of my church. As all of you know I'm Ukrainian and belong to a Ukie church, but I go confess to a Latin rite priest a couple of blocks away from my house. Why? Because he doesn't know me, and I guess it's also because I'm ashamed of myself and I wouldn't have the courage to look at my pastor's face again. Am I doing something wrong? Can you help me out?
Lauro

#64115 09/12/03 02:23 PM
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Lauro,

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Many people have the same problem and the Latin Church demands screens be provided so people don't avoid confession becasue they can't do it anonymously. Just different perspectives. Another solution is to have a spiritual father other than ones confessor. In Russia many would see a non-ordained elder for spiritual guidance then go get absolution from a priest.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance


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#64116 09/12/03 02:30 PM
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Dear Lance,
Thanks. That made me feel somewhat better.
Lauro

#64117 09/12/03 02:48 PM
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Lauro,

If you were ill, would you not want the services of a doctor who knew you well, who knew your family history and your lifestyle?

Sin is a disease. The physician who can help us best to heal from it is someone who knows us.

If you meet your doctor on the street, do you blush and hide your face? He or she has seen you naked - has perhaps even looked inside your most personal regions. It's part of the job, and medical ethics prevent your doctor from gossiping about your case.

Your confessor sees you naked too - or as naked as you are willing to strip your soul. It's part of the job. And the most sacred laws of the Church mean that no one else will ever hear what you say.

Are your sins so much worse than everybody else's? Your pastor has heard it all before. (So have most priests.)

I think perhaps there's a problem in focus here, too. Why do we run to our Father with tears? To name our demons and failings - and be forgiven - freed, restored by love to wholeness. To have those sins remembered no more. If the Lord forgets, (and I've heard from several priests that they do too) why should you continue to feel shame? To borrow a phrase from the Pentecostals, "claim the healing!"

If you had a fight with your beloved, and said things you regretted, would you reconcile at a distance? It's HARD to admit your faults in person, but I think that's medicinal too. And if s/he forgives you, do you want to be on the phone, or in a position to be embraced with healing tears?

I used to be Very Afraid of confession - long story - but over time came to be "converted" to it - and especially face-to-face, with someone who knows me, knows my weaknesses, and knows my demons.

One last thought - just about everything related to healing that happens to us personally in Church happens with the laying on of hands. The Holy Spirit seems to like it that way wink You can't do that through a screen. (A priest friend of mine, moving into a new assignment, turned the former - highly latinized - confessional into a closet. As he put it, "How can I absolve you if I can't touch you?")

Can I suggest you pray about it? Ask the Lord (and mention it to His Mama too) to replace fear with love, and show you the beauty of the Mystery.


Hopefully not too incoherently yours,


Sharon

#64118 09/12/03 03:07 PM
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As always, mothers offer the best advice. Nice post Sharon.


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#64119 09/12/03 03:44 PM
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Dear Sharon,
Thanks a lot. Really nice words. I guess I've got a few things to think over this weekend. I'll try to do the best I can.
Lauro

#64120 09/12/03 03:49 PM
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Very nice post, Sharon.

I used to hate confession, too. But at my new parish, I asked my priest to be my spiritual director, too. For the first month or so I met him once a week in his office for a half hour and we combined Confession with spiritual direction. This really developed a strong relationship between us. (Now I go to Confession on Saturday like everyone else, and I meet him every two months for spiritual direction.) I go to Confession face to face with him, and because of the deep relationship I have developed with him, I know that I can trust him with my innermost soul, my deepest secrets and my darkest sins. I trust him to be compassionate and forgiving. In that 10-minute Confession, I feel like he is my best friend. And you know what? I won't go to anyone else for confession, because I don't have that relationship with anyone else!

If you can find a loving priest and develop that kind of relationship, you will find yourself looking forward to Confession. Don't forget, in his sacerdotal office, which includes confession, the priest IS CHRIST - so think of it as a talk with Jesus. smile


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