www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Christians and Circumcision

Dear friends,

My wife and I are having our first son in June. "To circumcise or not to circumcise, that is the question."

I have been doing some research and have learned that most Europeans (east and west) are not circumcised. Nowadays, only 60% of Americans are circumcised. Further, it seems that Christian circumcision is primarily an American phenomenon, with one exception. The Ethopian Orthodox/Oridental (not sure which) Church apparently circumcises AND baptizes their infants with the circumcision occuring prior to the baptism. Tell me if I am mistaken.

I was wondering why this is. Also, aren't there some Eastern Catholic Etophian Churches? Do they also circumcise? Does the circumcision have a liturgical rite and do they do it in a church building?

If anyone is interested in anti-circumcision info, here's what I found so far:

DOC: Doctors Against Circumcision
http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/

NOCIRC: National Organization of Circumcion Information Resource Centers
http://nocirc.com/

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Marshall

Marshall,

I am a former Jew, and my two sons are intact.

The Ethiopian Church maintains a number of "Judaistic" practices, if you will.

There is no scriptural basis for requiring circumcision of Christians. There is also no compelling medical evidence for it. It can't be implicated in the transmission of disease unless the man already HAS the disease. With ordinary hygiene, it's no more likely to cause problems than your lip.

I can also say that with my first son, I had cause to be VERY grateful we decided not to circ. The foreskin has protective functions, and during a spate of really UGLY diaper rash, it served its purpose well.

Best wishes to you & your wife on the upcoming birth of your son!

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor, sinner, Breastfeeding Nazi & Mom to 3
sharon@cmhc.com

Circumsizing is a practical and healthy thing for children and I would most certainly recommend it. FRom a Christian perspective, you dont have to circumsize but you still can if so desired.

Robert K.

My adopted son was born and raised in Bulgaria. It is true that in most European countries most men are not circumcised. He told me that in the Balkan countries Christian men see it as an affirmation of their Christian identity. This is because both Jews and Moselm men are circumcised as part of their religious beliefs. During WWII and the Nazi invasion it was one of the few ways men had to prove they were in fact Christian.
However, I watched a TV program on the aids epidemic in Africa and how they compared two different tribes with same sexual practices and morality background. In one the aids rate was much higher than the other. The only difference was that in the tribe with the high aids rate the males were not circumcised. This led them to come to the conclusion that without a foreskin the skin becomes tougher and thicker and as such, is more resistant to germs or bacteria. If I remember correctly, there were tests done to confirm that theory.

OrthoMan

The medical community recently released a report that stated that female cirvical cancer can be traced at a high rate to women who have male partners that are not circumcised.

Perhaps this could be a statment more on male hygiene then on male foreskin in and of it's self - I don't know. Personaly I suspect most men suffer from an appropriate hygiene level of their body. I understand the people of United States of America are perhaps the worlds most frequent bathers, if this is the case it's not to heartning, because I have suspision I bathe more then the average American male. Infact I improved my bathing regement as an adult as I don't recall exactly being taught proper washing expectations as a child.

I understand from women that there are many men (what that means I'm not sure) that don't place proper washing of themselves high on the list.

Personaly I'm not big on baths I shower and I wash every aspect of my body. I use lotion after showering yes (except during humid summers I might just oil) but I also use an oil on my hair (or head if I'm shaved to almost bald low) and this oil I also use in the discussed area of this topic -- does offer and healthy benefit? I think so. I suffer during the summer from irritation in that area do to the nature of that area and heat and sweat. But the use of a good oil I find helps greatly not only for what may seem as a lubricant of sorts but for actually healing of the irritation it's self. It is also help for maintaining or producing a more desireable body scent.

If I feel I need it, I apply an astringent "wicth hazel" to this lower region, before I oil. This helps dramaticly. [WARNING: No Alcohol - for any boys reading or you'll jump through the roof]

As for oil product I personly use "Africa's Herbal Oil" and "Vaseline Hair Tonic".

I myself am "cut" and find it helpful - and needed - to washs regularly and as needed, and to use products that will help in the health of the outer skin my body. How one that is not cut and only takes a bath every other day or neglects to pay attention to certain areas of their body when bathing - and still maintain proper health condition in the discussed lower region - is beyond me.

It also helps to groom the hair low in that lower region.

Maximus,
Umm, thank you for sharing.

I don't know about you but a foreskin beats KY anyday.

Maximus,

I see you enjoy using "Africa's Herbal Oil".

I'll be honest, I use it too, and I find it incredible. In fact, last time I was in Capetown, South Africa, I bought a whole box of the stuff, for quite a bargain.

When I came back home, a relative asked me about it. I come to find out, I'm related, albeit several generations, to the man who invented the stuff.

It don't get any better than that.

Marshall wrote: "most Europeans (east and west) are not circumcised" that is true, it is also true that "most" of the same group are pagan, neo or otherwise, with church and synagouge (I am not sure about mosque perhaps our Moslem friend can elucidate) attendance/participation running around 10-15%. If there is any correlation between circumcision and practicing your faith (there certainly is among Orthodox Jews) it seems a good move for a son (I have been blessed with 5 sons and 5 grandsons all circumcised thank you). Not infrequently secular groups/persons oppose circumcision because it is emblematic of religious faith for all Jews and Moslems and incongruent with their inherent paganism. Moshe Zorea

LOL! Ya, I know not table talk to most folks but what can I say that's just my personality. I try to pass on what I percieve as useful information.

It's not needed from a Christian perspective and the medical benefits are controversial at best. For instance, the rate of these cancers some say are prevented are lower in Europe than in the U.S. There are also other issues. I would leave it to your son.

There is no Christian reason for you to remove a functional part of your sons body and I would leave it to him if he decides to have it removed later.

Honestly, I don't see the point of it...if God gave it to you and it doesn't do any harm in and of itself, why cut it off, and cause pain to the child, no matter how temporal it is? It will still hurt down there. Just know how to keep clean and all will be well.

And, with all due respect to Cizinec, I wouldn't even say "Leave it to your son"...I don't know one guy who wasn't circumcised at birth who opted for the scalpel later in life...just the thought makes me shudder.

To the first part I say: what about your wisdom teeth?

To the second part I say: I concur

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MosheZorea:

".....because it is emblematic of religious faith for all Jews and Moslems."

There certainly are more than just religious reasons for Muslims to practice circumcision.

If you asked this Circassian Muslim Israeli soldier why he is circumcised, he would probably answer:

Behold!

www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Campus/2712/main.html [geocities.com]

Salaam,

Abdur

We have two sons - one is 18 and one is 5. Neither of them are circumcised. The AMA has said there is no medical reason for it. My 18 year old actually told me thank you for not "doing that to him" after he saw some pictures of a circumcision. I don't have a lot of "intellectual" arguments or evidence because, quite frankly, I'm not very intellectual but I can speak from personal experience and I am very glad that we did not have them circumcised.