www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Antimensium for sale on eBay

I know this forum has dealt with this before. From the Coat of Arms, it looks like it's Byzantine Catholic. I was hoping someone with the means could send this back where it belongs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13770&item=6114768092

It was blessed by Ioann Buchek (or Buchik/Buchok), Greek Catholic Archbishop of Levkadia/Levkadius...it has the initials AB by his signature.

It is dated 10 December 1966. The space at the top where the name of the church (meaning parish) is supposed to be is blank.

Where do people get this stuff?? Who is bold enough in the Church to dare to give away sacred articles that would end up here??

Won't the answers to these questions be interesting at the Great Day???

Oh wouldn't it be nice to know.

Our Archdiocese is having to close some of its Churches as they are now in the worng place because of population movement.

The People from one of these closed Parishes have just given a Chalice , Paten and Ciborioum from their Church to a newly Ordained Priest as a gift from them [ he served them as a Deacon for 1 month on his placement during the Summer break from Rome in his 6th Year] - this is a fitting way to 'dispose' of liturgical items that are no longer being used. Auction on E-Bay - now that is wrong.

Anhelyna

"Where do people get this stuff?? Who is bold enough in the Church to dare to give away sacred articles that would end up here?? "

A couple of years ago I saw what appeared to be a Gospel Book for sale on ebay. I think it was written in the Golgathic Script, and they claimed it was owned by a priest in Canada who had died, and his family was getting rid of his things. It was printed about the time of the re-union. It was originally going for $100 but ended up going for about $600. (Too rich for my blood). I was going to give it to the Eparhical museum in Passaic. Oh well.
I have seen relics for sale on ebay too. The Roman Catholic Church did a "house cleaning" in the late sixties of various religious items declaring that such things were "not in the Spirit of Vatican II", whatever that means.

I think that what it means is that the barbarians have sacked and pillaged the City again.

It is tempting to buy it and keep it either with a home shrine, protected where it can be at least in a prayerful setting, or give it to a trustworthy parish, or better yet, even to a monastery.

My two cents.

This item may not be auctioned. I read the auction and it says that no bid has yet met the required non-posted minimum requirement--whatever that means. I take it that the auctioneer has set a hidden price that he wants as a minimum and that no one has yet met it. He may then elect not to let anyone have it and go to another venue.

The last antimins that I saw on eBay had a starting price of $75.00 if that interests anyone.

What puzzles me is that there is no parish listed. This could be one that no one ever used because the bishop bought one too many and there were never any relics placed in it. It may be that the buyer will receive nothing of any value for all his efforts. I didn't look to see if the post contained any info about relics or their whereabouts on/in the antimins.
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Mike C.:

Been through that period firsthand. The parish I lived in put their altar stones out for the dumpster when they re-did the church's inside. Also our marble Baptismal font was given away as a bird bath. But I've been all over that on another thread. Unfortunately, the so-called "spirit of Vatican II" was a spirit all right. But what spirit it was no one will step forward and tell us. My own rule of thumb is that whenever anyone invokes "the spirit of Vatican II" I suspect that I have someone who has lost his faith, has dreams of changing the Church to meet his own preconceived notions, is deeply involved in promoting abuses, or has some other ax to grind. I just shut them down and refer them to the most recent corrections by the Holy See.

In Christ,

BOB

Bob,

You're correct. The "reserve" is the minimum price for which the person placing an item at auction will allow it to be auctioned and that has not been met. There is no indication in the posted detail as to the specific relics contained therein, although it is clearly indicated that they are present. (The seller says they are his "gift" to the purchaser, they are not being sold - only the antimension :rolleyes: )

From the episcopal info that Tony provided - the bishop has to have been Ivan Bucko, memory eternal, an Auxiliary of Philadelphia of the Ukrainians in the 1940s. He was Titular Archbishop of Leucas/Leucadensis from 1953, when he was assigned to the Curia. He retired in 1971 and reposed in 1974.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

you are quite correct. I wonder how many items like these (antimensia, reliquaries, etc) would actually end up on ebay if they did not contain relics? Seeing how new antimensia may be purchased for around $50.00, one can only hope that Archbishop Ivan's signature is worth the price. If some gracious soul has the means to purchase this, it should be returned to the Archeparchy of Philadelphia (at least the relics). Antimensia currently in use must bear the signature of the current hierarch. In time, all Melkite parishes will have their current antimensia replaced with those consecrated by Archbishop Cyrille.

As to there being no parish name inscribed on the antimension, since Bishop Ivan obviously consecrated this during his tenure as Titular Archbishop (the "AE" = Arch-Episcopus) of Leucas/Leucadensis, and would have had no parishes as such, my supposition would be that this was Vladyka's antimension, that he himself used in celebrating the Liturgy.

The bid is now at $87.00 and the reserve is still not met.

Many years,

Neil

Neil:

If this is, indeed, the good bishop's own antimins, it reminds me of the story of Scrooge. The people around him sold the man's goods after his death without the least bit of compunction.

Lord, have mercy on us all.

In Christ,

BOB

After the singature there is AE.-AB. What do you imagine that stands for?

Tony,

As best I could see, it was either AE or AB - correct? not both. I would take either to be indicative of his titular office.

AE=Arch-Episcopus or AB=Arch-Bishop

With 8 hrs remaining, the bid is at $100 with reserve still not met.

Many years,

Neil

It seems from the enlarged photo that there are sacred relics enclosed in the antimension. This hierarch consecrated large numbers of these antimensia primarily to be used by the U.S. military priest chaplains during the Second World War. Over 600 each month were consecrated by His Grace. After his repose, His Excellency, Bishop Andrew Katkoff, M.I.C. was the consecrating prelate for the Byzantine Rite in Rome and took over this function of consecrating antimensia for the Military. The relics that Vladyka Andrew used were mostly bone fragments from the Holy Apostle Andrew. These antimensia usually do NOT have a church designation written on it as it was for general use by military chaplains. These antimensia were available just by telephoning the Catholic Near East folks in New York City.
This is a terrible sacrilege. I hope that someone with a bit of money will rescue this Holy Altar from hands that are not worthy and return it to a Byzantine Hierarch.
Silouan