www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Matthew Kelly on "LIght of the East"

Father Loya's interview of Matthew Kelly was broadcast this morning on 820 AM. It will be on the website by tomorrow evening November 8. Matthew Kelly will also be at our Church in December. Mark your calendars. Go to www.byzantinecatholic.com [byzantinecatholic.com] "radio" and click on November 7.

Dan L

Dan,

Who is Matthew Kelly? Based on a quick search, I find that there is a somewhat prolific Catholic author, whose works look to be in the make your life a success genre, by that name (the alternatives would be a DJ or a British TV personality). If it's the author, I'm curious as to what his particular relevance is to the East.

Many years,

Neil

There's a Matthew Kelly who had "visions" of the Virgin Mary in Austraila in the early 1990's. The name is fairly common so I assume it's not the same guy. Although if it is the same guy, I'm pretty disappointed that he was allowed on Light of the East.

I know nothing of Matthew Kelly.

Does having visions of the Virgin Mary discredit someone?

Having "visions" of the Virgin Mary that are not approved by the local bishop are more than enough to discredit someone. Good pious Roman Catholics have been prayed upon by these 'vultures' long enough. Do you know how much evil has been done in the name of Medjugorje?

What did the local bishop say about Matthew Kelly?

Let's be clear that we don't know for sure if it's the same guy.

The link doesn't mention what the bishop said, just that it's been discouraged by the bishop.

http://www.arulnathan.com/mother.html

Thanks for the link.

Jennifer,

While I still don't know which of a multitude of Matthew Kellys was the guest, I would not rely on that particular website to which you linked. After reviewing a couple of those indicating as having episcopal approval or that the local bishop doesn't object to internet postings on same, I followed links to:

a webpage that indicates active discouragement by the diocesan bishop;

a webpage that indicates the "seer's" pastor and his spiritual director (both unnamed) think he is "well-balanced" and "a good Catholic";

a webpage that contains a poorly written and/or badly typed and undated letter, purportedly from an Auxiliary Bishop of the "seer's" diocese, which contained no reference to the "visions", merely commenting on the woman's spiritual activities and that she "causes not difficulty for the Church." (note that wording is supposedly from a letter by an American diocesan auxiliary, a native English speaker, and someone whom I have heard speak; none of which suggests to me that he authored the letter).

So, while I can't say I have any faith in the gentleman's apparition, I wouldn't cite this particular site as authority with regard to any apparition.

Many years,

Neil

Here's the proper Matthew Kelly of whom I speak. I'll investigate further. But at least we can all start from the same point.

http://www.matthewkelly.com/

Dan L

All I could find was that it has not been encouraged by a bishop. Does that mean the same thing as "discouraged" or does it mean "no opinion"? Isn't it quite common for many Roman Catholic faithful to have all sorts of visions about which a bishop makes no comment?

Someone asked "What does Matthew Kelly have to do with Eastern Catholicism?" I can't speak directly for Father Loya but I would think he might say "While appiritions aren't part of our tradition Matthew Kelly's strong faith as a RC acts as a bridge between East and West. Beidge building is at the heart of our mission in the world." In any event I've never heard Kelly speak on the matter, I don't recall him mentioning it in his books, and he was only 20 when he had this vision. The Porteguese girls were much younger than that. Sometimes we see more when we are young than when we are old. While I as a somewhat "old man" "dream dreams" isn't it expected that young men like Kelly "shall see visions"? (Acts 2:17)

Dan L

I think that a vision that isn't encouraged is different than a vision that the bishop hasn't commented on. If it isn't encouraged, that means that bishop investigated it and decided it wasn't encouraged.

Regardless, the Roman Catholic world has been plagued (I guess I should temper this by saying this is only my opinion) by vultures claiming to have had these visions. Medjugore (again in my opinion) is downright evil and has destroyed lives.

I think that anyone involved in the whole marian 'apparitions' industry (again in my opinion) is a charleton (sp?). It's not a matter of giving people the benefit of the doubt. Too many people have been hurt by this industry. Anyone who is a part of it should be automatically distrusted.

I doubt it's the same guy. Surely someone would have made the connection if it was the same guy. Because of the Medjugore fraud and the scandal with that english priest who molested kids, EWTN and that 'genre' (which I assume Matthew Kelly is a part of) is gunshy about the marian "apparitions" industry. I think that if it was the same man, they would have figured it out.

Jennifer,

I don't judge the value of appiritions. Perhaps you are right about them constituting an industry that fleeces people. I don't know. You are first RC I've ever run across who has had such a strongly negative opinion on the subject. I know that many Protestants would agree with you. I think most EC's would shrug their shoulders and simply say, "we have no opinion one way or the other." That's pretty much my opinion.

In any event you are probably right. Since no mention has been made of it the appirition Kelly is probably not the Matthew Kelly we know. Even if it is he seems to have not put much reliance upon it.

Dan L

My dad was into Medjugore for a while. My father had good sense because he is a very prayerful person but some of his acquaintances went off the deep end.

After seeing how some of these people went crazy (became obsessed with the "visions" and thought the world was coming to and end), I did some investigating of my own and came to the conclusion that Medjugore is downright evil. There was an excellent article in Crisis from the 1990's that exposed Medjugore for what it was.

Medjuogre is the rot at the root of all of these "apparitions."

Some of them could be authentic but we don't have to believe in them and the whole industry has done more harm than good (in my opinion, of course).

Jennifer:

I think you are going overboard in your assessments of things Roman Catholic.

The Medjugorje (I believe that's how it is spelled) apparitions are NOT patently evil. Although the Church has not approved of the apparitions, they have not been condemned to be false either.

The judgment of the local Bishop and that of the Bishops' Conference (in the former Yugoslavia) stand: that there is no credible proof, as yet, that the visions and/or apparitions are of supernatural in nature.

Unofficial pilgrimages are allowed to the site.

In like manner, Matthew Kelly's "visions" he claims to have experienced in New South Wales, Australia have not been condemned by the Church nor have they been approved either.

Considering his ministry over the years (starting when he was merely 19), Matthew Kelly seems to be doing alright. He has written numerous books and has been invited to speak before millions worldwide.

I recall that last year, he was invited twice as guest over at Relevant Radio, from whence the connection to Fr. Loya might be traced.

Definitely, Matthew Kelly is not a "charlatan.!"

Amado

There were certainly apparitions before and after the ones in Yugoslavia. In fact, the Yugoslavian Bishops Conference decreed the Medjugorje apparitions not worthy of belief. I have mentioned before the little lady in the RC church where I play, who would leap into her car and drive cross-country if Mary were seen on a cereal box. I don't understand it. We have everything we need to know from scripture and Church teaching, and apparitions can add nothing to that. We live, I think, in an age where emotion prevails over logic, and reason is no longer prized. I call it the Oprahization of America. Saints have taught that seeking signs and wonders is a danger to spiritual well-being, and can result in being led astray.

There are many Roman Catholics who believe that Medjugorje is demonic. Look for the Crisis article for more information.

Jennifer:

It is not within the province of the laity, including writers and commentators, to judge whether visions or apparitions are supernatural.

First hand, the local Bishop conducts the "inquiry" and issues judgment. Then, its up to the next level of authority to concur or disagree.

Otherwise, we have "charlatans!"

Amado

In case anyone wants more information about the Medjuogre see the following link:

http://www.culturewars.com/CultureWars/Archives/cw_feb98/surmanci.html

Rolling Stones writer now Roman Catholic convert(as a result of his experiences wihile writing the book) Randall Sullivan wrote a very interesting book about the Papal "miracle detectives", and wrote about his experiences in Medjugorje. It is called Miracle Detectives and is very, very interesting. He had mixed feelings aobut the apparitions.

Matthew Kelly's books include two books I enjoyed immensely: The Call to Joy and ,oops, I can't remember the name of the first one right now, but it deals with how to reinvigorate Catholicism by living it and truly understanding the teachings. I thought they were particularly valuable for young people ,those that have fallen away from the church, and those who know little about the Church.Yes, some of the language soulds like self-help books, but he is firmly grounded in Roman Catholic theology. I higly recommend his books to all.

Yeah, I think(but I"m not positive) he had apparitions when he was younger, but he does not promote them at all.

Peace

Dear Indigo:

Could be either "Rediscovering Catholicism. . ." or "Mustard Seeds . . .?"

Amado

I am not sure what I think about Medjugorge, but referencing E Michael Jones as an authority is a joke, I hope. I knew a professor of philosophy who assigned Jones' book on the apparitions, with the instructions to find all the logical errors as a final exam in his logic class. Jones has a long history as a muckraker, and lately has become involved in anti-Jewish conspiracy theories as well.
Daniel

However, it IS up to the laity to use good judgment and discernment. The proper procedure when one has a vision is to bring it to their pastor. It is up to the bishop to decide whether it is valid or not.

These people who have 'visions' and promulgate them over the internet without the express endorsement of their bishops are not submitting themselves to the authority God has placed over them. In my mind, this automatically makes the vision suspect.

Even worse than Medjugorje is that guy in Canada who says Jesus and Mary told him the Rapture is coming and we all have to be in some place called Asylum City to be saved. Then when the prophesied date came and went, he said Jesus was just testing him to make sure he was obedient. He needs an asylum, all right.

Tammy

Well, now that we are all thoroughly confused; I am not sure if the Matthew Kelly who had the vision is the same Matthew Kelly who writes self-help books, and I seem to recall a Matthew Kelly in the 80s who was a gay Trappist monk [yes, Virginia, things are weird].
I do know that there are clearly fraudulent [or worse] visions, legitimate visions, and a wide world of those that are harder to discern....
-Daniel

Amadeus,
"Rediscovering Catholicism. . ." Yes, that's the book. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Iconophile, the Matthew Kelly of this thread is in his 30's, so that safely rules out the 80's monk.

Peace,
Indigo

indigo- Thanks be to God!
Daniel

Dan,
I thank you for the Light of the East link. I listened to the program for the first time yesterday and I really enjoyed it! Matthew Kelly was as inspiring as I had hoped he'd be. I'll be sure to listen to the other programs and send in a donation.

Daniel,
I hope you check it out too. I think you will be relieved of your fears!

Peace,
Indigo

Matthew Kelly of the "self-help" books and Matthew Kelly of the 1990s "apparitions" in Australia (about which one can seemingly find nothing on the web, other than the year of same and that they occurred in New South Wales) appear to be the same person. Neither of these facts makes Kelly a bad person; as Indigo has noted, he doesn't seem to use his books to promote the "locutions" which he is said to have experienced.

My question remains - what relevance has he to Eastern Catholicism?

Many years,

Neil

Was the topic of "who is Matthew Kelly?" resolved as of yet? In his books, he relays that God spoke to him when he was 19 in 1993. He is from Australia, so that Matthew Kelly listed on the false apparitions list, is the same person. What does that mean? The bishop does not believe that this happened to him?

Jennie-O
"a newbie"

Jennie-O,

I wonder if one is nineteen and hasn't seen something wondrous if that person is really looking. Be that as it may, I think the list only means that the Church has no opinion on it one way or the other. Imagine if the Church had to make some official pronouncement about every vision everyone ever had. It would be an impossible task.

I gather that it is the same Matthew Kelly but I've never heard him speak on the subject. He will be at Annunciation Church in Homer Glen on Dec. 4.

Dan L

I actually first saw him on a public access channel one night. His stories are enlightening and intriguing. I've read his book, "The Rhythm of Life." He has some wonderful insights. I'm actually going to hear him speak on December 4th as well when he is in St. Charles. (later lecture).

Actually - make that December 2nd! (ooops!)

Did anyone go to one of Matthew Kelly's seminars? I went to the one in St. Charles Thursday night. I thought he did a terrific job of engaging the audience. He adds humor as well to his talks and his words are encouraging, spiritual, and motivational!